EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change - 2
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RandomCurve
Posts: 1,637 Forumite
As promised on the EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014 thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...88862&page=103
And Mobile Phone Contract - Price Rise Refunds Thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...818999&page=71
This new thread is to launch a NEW campaign with the following aims:
http://fightmobileincreases.com/pressure-ofcom/
In addition to refund and cancellation, depending on how EE respond we may also be able to obtain some compensation for EEs behaviour (£50-£100 being typical amounts).
I will post details later on what needs to be done, but rest assured this is RISK FREE and costs you NOTHING! and for the aim of having previous price rises refunded - you do not even need to still have a contract!!
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...88862&page=103
And Mobile Phone Contract - Price Rise Refunds Thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...818999&page=71
This new thread is to launch a NEW campaign with the following aims:
- To have all sums paid over and above your original contract price under the price variation clauses refunded
- To have contrast cancelled PENALTY free (from 30 days after you first contact EE/Orange/T-Mobile
- Try and get Ofcom to take some action!
- On the first aim we have won cases in the past (I have 100% record in my own cases, we have a 75% success rate overall) and during March this year EE have effectively admitted that their price variation clause in contacts before 26th March was unenforceable! - so I expect a very high success rate
- On the second aim we have a 97% success rate BUT that was on claims made within the 30 day claim limit - success on this is dependant on proving that EE have not used correct procedure when notifying the change in T&Cs - if we get past that hurdle than another 97% success rate should be possible! -Am 95% certain we can overcome this hurdle!
http://fightmobileincreases.com/pressure-ofcom/
In addition to refund and cancellation, depending on how EE respond we may also be able to obtain some compensation for EEs behaviour (£50-£100 being typical amounts).
I will post details later on what needs to be done, but rest assured this is RISK FREE and costs you NOTHING! and for the aim of having previous price rises refunded - you do not even need to still have a contract!!
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Comments
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I should say right up front that I have no legal training, and any action you take from my posts is at your own risk. However that risk should be ZERO as the cost of following the advice is ZERO and the worst that can happen is that you do not obtain the refund or contract cancellation.
I will refer to EE, Orange and T-Mobile collectively as EE (Oh my God I’m sounding like an EE contract – heeeelp)
The steps you need to take are as follows, I am assuming that EE will be true to form and try to dismiss your claims –which works to your advantage in the long as it is EEs responses to initial emails that generates the case for compensation.
Step 1- Email EE requesting a refund of all sums taken over and above the originally agreed contract price (applies to all contracts – even those that have finished)
- And if applicable – Contract cancellation due to the change in T&Cs effective 26th March (contract cancellation is not applicable to those whose contracts ended before 26th March 2014 OR T-Mobile customers on V58 of the contract (contracts stared pre 30th October 2012)).
- EE will probably respond with a polite "No" and quote some legal jargon regarding GC 9.6.
- Email EE restating your position and request that they send you a deadlock letter so that you can take a case to CISAS (the independent adjudication service) Again I will provide a standard Email for you to use.
- At this point EE will either:
- Still attempt to ignore you – in which case I will supply further template emails
- Provide a deadlock reference (they usually need to be “harassed” 3 or 4 times before grudgingly saying that they will not communicate further (which acts as a deadlock reference anyway)) OR
- (And I’m 99% sure this won’ happen) EE will give in and process your refund/cancellation or both.
- Assuming EE will not comply with regulation without a CISAS decision then we need to move to step 3
Step 3- I will post a statement (claim) for you to email to the adjudicator
- EE will submit a response (defence) to the adjudicator
- you then respond to that defence (again I will provide a standard email) It is vital you respond to the defence as the adjudicators take everything that EE will say as being factually correct – even when it is not! So you have to discredit their arguments or you will lose!)
- The adjudicator makes their decision - you win or you lose.
If you win you will be a few quid better off than you were before (better the money is in your pocket than the Mobile companies fat cat directors bonus)! But more than that you would have come away feeling the elation of hitting back at EE who so smugly told you that you could not escape the price increase and that it is “only equivalent to the cost of a can of beans”.
And if you think that it is not worth fighting for relatively small sums of money then remember that the 2013 price increase for EE is estimated to be worth £52,000,000 (yes £52 MILLION). So if you don't need/want the money then when you win donate it to a local children's hospice or some other worthy cause because they need it more than phone companies!
Here is my suggestion: http://www.havenhouse.org.uk/
And if you are also in the position of cancelling a contact then you will be saving a good sum of cash each month by switching to a SIM only deal
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First of all a big THANK YOU to MSE for "reserving" the first 32 posts for me. The intention is that I will post the relevant emails, CISAS case and Defence responses in these posts as we go through the process so they are easy to find! I will still "join the debate" in the posts below #32.
An important document that EE may have sent you that will almost guarantee a victory in reclaiming your previous price increase is available on the FightMobileIncreases.com website ( http://fightmobileincreases.com/complete-camapaign-against-ee/ ), it is the document titled "Clearly and ad ex 21" (Clearly and adequately explained). This was the document which I presented as evidence to CISAS that had my price increases refunded AND £50 compensation awarded as it was deemed to be so misleading.
Basically for the price variation clause to be enforceable it needs to have been "clearly and Adequately" drawn to your attention. As you will see the "welcome Letter" claims to show the important points in my contract so that "..there are no surprises..." and guess what - no mention of a price variation clause. If you have a similar document you have as good as won the refund already!
If anybody more technically skilled than me wants to post that document on the MSE forum please feel free to do so.0 -
Okay the first email to send to EE. I have kept it brief as we will develop the argumenst as we progress, this is partly to give EE some room to come up with excuses which can use to against them to claim compensation
Update the Green text to suit you circumstances and delete the RED text if you do not have a welcome letter (see post #3). Do not delete the rest of point one unless the price variation WAS clearly and adequately drawn to your attention. The Welcome letter is merely documented proof - there is plenty of other evidence we can use too!
Send to:[EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]; [EMAIL="Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]
DATE:
Phone Number(s) 07XXX-XXXXXX
Dear Mr Swantee
Price Rise Refunds and Penalty Free Cancellation.
The purpose of this email is twofold
1. To request the all sums taken from my account which are over and above the originally agreed contract price are refunded for any price increase that has been applied to any contract that I have held with EE at any time over the six years. My request is based on my belief that the price variation clause which EE have relied upon would fail the test of fairness under several headings of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations1999 (UTCCRs) the list below is not exhaustive:
1 The price variation clause was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention at point of sale (see attached welcome letter);
2 the price variation clause is not narrowly nor precisely defined
3 due to the constituent elements of the contract an RPI increase cannot be a true reflection of cost increases incurred by EE, and therefore the price increase has been used to suit EEs own needs which is strictly forbidden under the UTCCRs
5 the price clause is discretionary – there is no reason given in the contract as to the circumstances in which a price rise can be applied
6 EE cannot pass the risk burden of inflation to me in a short term contract
7 EE have informed Ofcom that they can predict future cost increase with some certainty - I therefore have no way of knowing what inflationary factors were already taken of account of.
2. Secondly I request that this email is deemed as my 30 day notice period for a Penalty Free contract cancellation following EEs change in T&Cs which was effective 26 March 2014. As the change clearly purports to give EE the right to increase my contract price by a larger amount than was previously the case (Exclusive use of RPI in the new contract rather than lower inflation rates such as CPI as was the case previously) and therefore under both the UTCCRs and Ofcom GC 9.6 I am entitled to cancel my contract penalty free and I request a PAC code is provided by return. I would further point out that I believe the notification received via text of the change in T&Cs is so misleading in its phrasing that the true implication of the change was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention and is evidence of EE not applying the level of Professional Diligence from a company of its size and experience and has caused a Material Distortion under the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. This also demonstrates a lack of operating in a sprit of Good Faith.
Please refund all sums taken over and above the originally agreed contract price under your price variation clause, and provide a PAC code (Penalty Free) for my use within the next 30 days.
Regards
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I have posted various versions of EE T&Cs on the FightMobileIncreases.com website for ease of reference, plus details of the notification of the change in T&Cs and a table showing all price increase the have been applied.
http://fightmobileincreases.com/figh...nd-conditions/
Email 1 is also available to download:
http://fightmobileincreases.com/figh...gn-against-ee/0 -
If EE ignore your email, then after FIVE working days, resend it stating that they have not responded. If after another 5 working days there is still no response then send the email below and copy in all of the addressees’ below
Ofcom:
[EMAIL="OCCtelecoms@ofcom.org.uk"]OCCtelecoms@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL];
[EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk"]graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="Ed.Richards@ofcom.org.uk"]Ed.Richards@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
EE
[EMAIL="olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk"]olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]
The Media
[EMAIL="Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk"]Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk"]joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="your.problems@observer.co.uk"]your.problems@observer.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Me
[EMAIL="Info@fightmobileincreases.com"]Info@fightmobileincreases.com[/EMAIL]
Dear Mr Swantee,
It has now been X days since my last email, copy attached..
I find this level of customer service unacceptable and falls well short of the standards it would be reasonable to expect in a matter of this importance.
I have included my previous email and related correspondence for your convenience.
I would also like you to confirm how ignoring my emails to date compiles with Ofcom GC14 on complaints handling. I understand that Ofcom are currently conducting an investigation into EEs complaints procedure and I have copied this email to Ofcom so they can add it to their evidence file
Regards
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Response from EE re Email 1 (post #4) – Note that the response below has NOTHING to do with the points raised in email 1!
Thank you for your email dated X/X/2014, received in the Executive Office, I have been asked to respond on behalf of EE.
I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent increase to our prices and some of our services. As a company we are committed to investing significantly in our network and work hard to give the best value for our service, we have in this instance tried to keep these increases to a minimum. However due to rising business costs linked to inflation we have had to revaluate our pricing structure.
In this instance, the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7% and compliant with the Terms and Conditions of your contract. Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract. Please refer to clause 3.7 in your Terms and Conditions.
Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.
Yours sincerely
Response to send:
Dear X,
Thank you for your email dated X, however you appear to have ignored the contents of my email, which was not about the price rise of May 2014, but rather is in connection with ALL previous price rises and the change in T&Cs effective March 2014 for which EE never provided the correct notification.
I have attached my original email and trust that once you have fully digested the contents you will provide the penalty free termination and the refunds as requested.
Regards
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Response from EE re Email 2 (post #7) – Note that EE have still not given permission to go to CISAS so you need to send Email3!
Thank you for your response. I apologise I did not cover the change in our Terms and Conditions in my previous email.
Whilst your comments are fully acknowledged, when you entered your current agreement, our Terms and Conditions at this time allowed us to change them during the minimum term of that agreement. They also laid down under what conditions a customer would be able to leave their agreement without penalty.
Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel their contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.
As a company EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions. Under these circumstances any request from its customers to be released from contract without penalty will be declined. Any customer wishing to cancel their contract may do so by providing the relevant 30 days notice period required but they will be held liable for any early termination fee.
Given the above, as you are in commitment until 10 October 2014. Should you still wish to cancel your contract, you would be liable for the remainder of the minimum term's charges. If you are happy to pay the Early Termination charge, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0800 079 0032 between 8.00am and 8.00pm Monday to Friday.
The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations and as the previous emails and this one sets out fully the final position EE has taken, no further discussion will be entered into with regard to this matter.
Yours sincerely
Response to send to the above :
Dear X
Thank you for your email dated X
I note that despite three emails on the subject EE have yet to address my request that ALL sums taken over and above the initially agreed contract price in any contract that I have held with EE in the past six years is refunded. I find this demonstrates a distinct lack of duty of care.
In regards to the change in T&Cs I still contend that the change – which purports to allow EE to cap price increases at RPI, whereas previously they were capped at CPI – is of Material Detriment to me under Ofcom GC 9.6. I note that other than to say “As a company EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions “ EE have not explained what criteria it has used to reach this conclusion. Additionally as you mention the terms of the contract allow EE to change the T&Cs may I remind you that the contract also allows for a penalty free cancellation should I deem a change of T&Cs to be of Material detriment to me and that under the UTCCRs EE does not have a unilateral right to determine what Material detriment means in the contractual context.
I therefore request that EE provide me with a PENALTY FREE cancellation and issue a PAC (note that the issuance of a PAC on any basis other than a PENALTY FREE basis will be a gross breach of contract); and that EE refund previous price increases as requested.
Should EE still be of the opinion that I am not entitled to the above remedies then as per Ofcom guidance on complaints handling I request that you provided me with a deadlock letter by return. For your reference I have copied the Ofcom guidance (Annex 4 paragraph 4 (c) to GC 14) below and added comments in red as to why the exceptions to issuing a deadlock letter are unlikely to apply in this matter;
A CP must promptly issue a written Deadlock Letter when requested by a Complainant, unless:
i) the CP has genuine and reasonable grounds for considering that the Complaint will be resolved in a timely manner and subsequently takes active steps to do so; orAs EE have stated "...no further discussion will be entered into with regard to this matter" then there is no prospect of resolving this issue in a timely manner
ii) it is reasonable to consider the Complaint to be vexatious; or I genuinely believe that EE have breached GC 9.6 and its own contract in regards to the change in T&Cs, and that the previous price rise clauses are unenforceable under the UTCCRs
iii) the subject-matter of the Complaint is outside the jurisdiction of the CP’s Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme. I am aware that CISAS have taken on cases in respect of EEs change in T&Cs and so this exception is not relevant – CISAS ruling extract:
“I find that:
a. The customer’s claim concerns the application of the company’s Terms and Conditions under which he is provided with a communication service. I am therefore satisfied that it relates to a communication service. I do not consider contractual interpretation to be a complicated issue of law. I am therefore satisfied that I am able to adjudicate on this dispute.”
Regards0 -
This is the email you are after from EE (from post #8)– it allows you to go to CISAS – Interesting to note that EE are still referring the 2.7% price increase! We will use this to seek compensation!!!
Thank you for your email response.
We do not feel that this change is of material detriment to you as it is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation. I acknowledge you do not agree with this decision therefore the next step would be to seek independent adjudication via CISAS.
You may refer your complaint to CISAS. CISAS will determine whether the complaint falls within the jurisdiction of its ADR Scheme. We may argue that it does not. If CISAS agrees its Scheme applies, it will adjudicate on the complaint in line with the Scheme rules. CISAS's details are as follows:-
CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street,
London,
EC4Y 1EU
Email: [EMAIL="info@cisas.org.uk"]info@cisas.org.uk[/EMAIL]
Tel: 020 7520 3827
Fax: 020 7520 3829
Please be advised no refund will be applicable.
Yours sincerely0 -
CISAS “step through” Guide
Before posting a template CISAS claim I thought a little step through guide to the CISAS process may be of use.
When you submit your claim CISAS will forwarded it to EE who then have 10 days to respond (submit a defence).
CISAS will send you a copy of the defence and you will have 5 days to respond the EEs defence - you do not have to respond, but if past history is anything to go by it will be a pack of lies including claiming that CISAS do not have authority to decide these cases, and that EE have not changed your T&Cs!!! So you should respond (I am happy to help if needed).
Once CISAS receive your response to the defence an adjudicator will be appointed (takes a day or 2) and then CISAS will make a judgement within 3 weeks of the appointment.
As for the application process itself it goes like this:
I will post a CISAS claim that you should just be able to copy and paste into the CISAS claim form (it is less than 750 words) which can be found here:
http://www.cisas.org.uk/Makeanapplication-25_e.html
When you follow the link above you will need to enter some details (name address etc etc) there are also some drop down boxes - most are self-explanatory, but here is some guidance:
'Dispute Type'- contract Terms
'What do you want the company to do?'
'take some action' - Give a back dated penalty free cancellation (refunding any sums taken since the contract should have been terminated) and a PAC and unlock code
'Give you money' £100
You will also have an option to upload "evidence" or to submit that separately by email - I suggest you submit it separately via email (as the attachments method did not work when I tried to do it that way). The evidence is just the emails you have sent EE and the responses you have received. If you have a copy of the Text they sent in February and you can "copy" it into an email then use that too. If you have a “welcome” letter scan it in and attach it. These emails/documents are the Appendix 1.x and 2.x.
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Instructions – please follow carefully
Note that A WORD version of the next 8 posts is available from the Fight Mobile Increases web site. There is also an EXCEL version which is much easier to use as you just answer a few questions with a Yes or No and it produces a fully tailored CISAS case for you!
http://fightmobileincreases.com/fight-ee/complete-camapaign-against-ee/- Read the whole document first it’s long but will help you understand what you’re trying to do, However if you find it to hard going then don’t read it BUT change/update the red text starting at the BOTTOM of the document and working upwards – otherwise the page numbers will change.
- Red Text – you need to delete the bits which don’t apply to you OR change the text to reflect your circumstances pages 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 16, 18, 19 (page 15 is difficult to spot!!!).
- Grey text – delete it is there as a guide pages 4, 6 and 16
- You may be claiming for previous price increases only, cancellation only, or both. Please delete the sections which are not relevant to your particular claim.
- The text from “Summary” to “Correspondence is in relation to this is at Appendix 2.2 to 2.X” should be copied into the “details of claim” on the CISAS form
- I have included all contract types – delete the ones that don’t apply to you
- If you failed in your price rise claim and were informed that you should have cancelled when the T&Cs were changed then add the following at the very beginning of “claim 2” in the summary (Page 1):
- “I took a claim to CISAS following the May price increased imposed by EE, the adjudicator ruled in EEs favour but said “quote adjudicator (should have applied for a cancellation when T&Cs were changed)”
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