New unexpected ticket

Umkomaas · 26 October 2016 at 9:58AM

old_dinosaur wrote: »

Thanks for this.If we go to courts what can we claim in expenses for time taken to research/construct defense? I'm guessing its not the £14,400/hour that PCM are charging me pro rata lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Court rate for a litigant in person = £19 per hour. But be sensible as to the number of hours claimed (5-6 hours or thereabouts shouldn't see it being laughed out of court - and your costs claim with it!).

old_dinosaur · 26 October 2016 at 10:45AM

That's very helpful, thanks, so am guessing other costs are loss of earning for day to court, postage, cost of land registry search? Anything else I can add please?

Umkomaas · 26 October 2016 at 12:18PM

old_dinosaur wrote: »

That's very helpful, thanks, so am guessing other costs are loss of earning for day to court, postage, cost of land registry search? Anything else I can add please?

Loss of earnings limited to £90 (£95?).
Return travel costs - if driving, £0.45 per mile
Postage
Land Registry search (in principle, possibly, but not sure - try it especially if you've a receipt)
Car Parking costs (oh, the irony!).

That's about it - unless anyone else spots anything missing.

old_dinosaur · 26 October 2016 at 7:11PM

Thank you lets hope I don't get that far but need to be prepared and actually would be great to receive a monetary bonus if I win, which hope to with all the support here.

old_dinosaur · 27 October 2016 at 6:02PM

Hi the landowner are intimidated by PCM and say as it's going to court they can't help. I know that's incorrect has anyone here had a parking charge cancelled by Genesis Housing or is there a link that I can email to the cowardly can't be dealing with this landowner. Any help gratefully received.

old_dinosaur · 27 October 2016 at 6:07PM

Sorry forgot to add can a rep from the landowner be asked to attend court to answer for PCM also can I ask for a copy of their contract and if so what statement am I looking for regarding this charge I know somewhere I read about VAT.

Coupon-mad · 27 October 2016 at 6:37PM

old_dinosaur wrote: »

Sorry forgot to add can a rep from the landowner be asked to attend court to answer for PCM also can I ask for a copy of their contract and if so what statement am I looking for regarding this charge I know somewhere I read about VAT.

When that's been tried before it has been refused as disproportionate (also you are opening yourself up to more costs if you then lost).

VAT is a red herring, nothing to do with what needs to be discussed at the hearing which is basically (boiling it right down):

is there evidence of a contravention,

is there evidence of a contract clearly formed and agreed by signage

was the charge clear on that signage and could the Defendant have read it in seconds?

and is the Defendant liable?

In our experience, Gladstones tend to struggle with all of that! This case once we have more details, will be worth citing in your defence because it was about a no stopping location, I believe, and you said yours was similar, just 16 seconds allowed:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/es-parking-enforcement-at-spinningfield.html

You can certainly ask for a copy of the contract; maybe Genesis Housing will show you a redacted version. If not, then you will not get one from PCM or Gladstones until the Witness Statements and evidence (yours and theirs) is exchanged before the hearing date.

What's your date for getting this defence filed?

old_dinosaur · 27 October 2016 at 11:21PM

Thanks for this and yes would be helpful for my defence which I need to submit by 8th Nov. Another victory against PCM was near Reading similar private road but not a car park and judge awarded defendants costs as not a genuine pre estimate of loss could be slight trespass only. Spent all evening collating bullet points should be ready next week,but am concerned about giving away too much on this site. Will give landowner one last chance to come out from under his blanket to phone PCM as they are legally liable, but no where on the Web can I find a site where they've managed to have the guts to cancel a charge.

old_dinosaur · 3 November 2016 at 3:37PM

Bullet points for brief Defense or Defence!
Defence is as follows-
PCM as a condition of membership of AOS have agreed to abide by the IPC code of practice.

IPC code of practice signs Part B 2.1 -Signage too high to be seen from highway in a car and certainly not legible from there.
Part B 14.1- predatory tactics VCS V IBBOTSON attendant had every opportunity to mitigate Company's "loss".
Part B 3.2 Appeal states ANPR /CCTV as evidence- no sign to that effect and photos must have been taken at ground level by attendant or camera in a car, again if so the parked car reg. xxxxxxx belongs to the attendant then it's predatory tactics.
IPC Code of Practice Part B 15.1 Grace period - 16 seconds is far too short a time to read and decide whether to enter into any contract, especially when the sign is 9-10 feet up.
(Interestingly smaller notices now say "No customer parking at anytime" from Genesis.The driver or passenger were not customers of Sainsbury).

Signage photographed as evidence is actually one hidden behind unloading van/lorry, as the one seen by the passenger were set diagonally to each other not underneath each other.
Part B 8.1 -No genuine pre estimate of loss as no payment for stopping required, more a case of slight trespass see case PCM v Bull Lydsay and Woolford 21/4/16 and Judge Glen's response.
Medical evidence to show passenger's mobility problems.
Highway code defines "parking"- "If you've pulled in to let a passenger out, that's not parking unless there is a no stopping restriction". There were no Clearway No stopping signs, or Loading bay signs on single posts between the wall and the layby and the loading bay sign on the road was obscured by heavy traffic.

Not sure what else to add please tweek obviously it's not in a proper order, but any help to show how to present this correctly worded to a court would be gratefully received asap please.

pould · 3 November 2016 at 4:26PM

old_dinosaur wrote: »

Bullet points for brief Defense or Defence!
Defence is as follows-
PCM as a condition of membership of AOS have agreed to abide by the IPC code of practice.

IPC code of practice signs Part B 2.1 -Signage too high to be seen from highway in a car and certainly not legible from there.
Part B 14.1- predatory tactics VCS V IBBOTSON attendant had every opportunity to mitigate Company's "loss".
Part B 3.2 Appeal states ANPR /CCTV as evidence- no sign to that effect and photos must have been taken at ground level by attendant or camera in a car, again if so the parked car reg. xxxxxxx belongs to the attendant then it's predatory tactics.
IPC Code of Practice Part B 15.1 Grace period - 16 seconds is far too short a time to read and decide whether to enter into any contract, especially when the sign is 9-10 feet up.
(Interestingly smaller notices now say "No customer parking at anytime" from Genesis.The driver or passenger were not customers of Sainsbury).

Signage photographed as evidence is actually one hidden behind unloading van/lorry, as the one seen by the passenger were set diagonally to each other not underneath each other.
Part B 8.1 -No genuine pre estimate of loss as no payment for stopping required, more a case of slight trespass see case PCM v Bull Lydsay and Woolford 21/4/16 and Judge Glen's response.
Medical evidence to show passenger's mobility problems.
Highway code defines "parking"- "If you've pulled in to let a passenger out, that's not parking unless there is a no stopping restriction". There were no Clearway No stopping signs, or Loading bay signs on single posts between the wall and the layby and the loading bay sign on the road was obscured by heavy traffic.

Not sure what else to add please tweek obviously it's not in a proper order, but any help to show how to present this correctly worded to a court would be gratefully received asap please.

One should ALWAYS attempt to get VCS vs Ibbotson into any bundle, because if the judge reads the whole thing and they're feeling particularly antagonistic against the PPC / lawyer, it provides wonderful food for thought as to how to proceed....

New unexpected ticket

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