NEWBIES!!! [Sticky Thread Comments Archive]

As a complete newbie - I'm asking this here as it directly relates to the newbie guide..

I'm not clear about this:

Postal PCN from a BPA or IPC member ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket at all):

It's not clear if this should be replied to by email asap - or you should wait 26 days, like an on window notice.

Thanks!

quote of original post 2 :-



SMALL CLAIM? START A NEW THREAD PLEASE.

Firstly, most PPCs never sue anyone.

You can check for yourself by Googling 'BMPA Insight' and the name of any parking firm...court numbers and advice tailored to each company. You can see how likely it is, or not. We get people worried about small fry firms who wouldn't know court process if it hit them in the face! So check them out as per the BMPA Insight pages.

If you have a Letter Before Claim (LBC, sometimes referred to on forums as a LBCCC), you must respond robustly. Sometimes an assertively-worded reply sees the claim off and cancels the PCN, like here in a CEL case where I wrote a reply (post #11). You are all very welcome to plagiarise it but don't copy irrelevant stuff like the Equality Act part if it is not right for your case:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5673397

And look at Gan's examples of replies, in any similar thread on pepipoo forum. Here is one he has suggested for Gladstones' LBC:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=108556&st=0&p=1224254&#entry12 24254

...or from LoadsofChildren123, who is legally qualified:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72358831#post72358831

and another one by LoadsofChildren123, in response to the robo-claim (parking equivalent of ambulance-chasers), BW Legal:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72448659#post72448659

and a long one I wrote against a multi-PCN event totalling in excess of £3000, where the PPC is not able to invoke keeper liability:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72509151#post72509151

DO RESPOND - if it later goes to a hearing then the Judge will see this correspondence. Seize the moment to point out how the firm have been unreasonable and to ask for evidence, photos, a copy of the signage terms, etc. You do not have to write in legalese but don't write a weak 'appeal' type reply, NOT: ''I can't afford it/there was no loss/ this is what happened/excuses...!''

If you get court claim, do not panic, we assist people & many win! It's more difficult to show you a 'template suggestion' defence since ParkingEye v Beavis. But we do win in 99% of cases and/or and get cases discontinued all the time!

ALMOST NO-ONE REPORTS A LOSS - YOU DON'T NEED A SOLICITOR, WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND WE HELP FOR FREE.

So, where to start dealing with your claim?

DO NOT START SCRAWLING A HALF-BAKED 'DEFENCE' ON THE PAPERWORK. STOP!

Here is a guide to MCOL & how to acknowledge service (the first step to get time to defend), put together by another genuine PPC fighter:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0


Urgently start your own thread and show us your own tailored draft defence and we'll assist on a case by case basis. You do not get a CCJ even if you lose; as long as you pay within 30 days of judgment it's all sorted and nothing stays on the register (i.e. your credit record). Take heart from the act that almost all posters here, some 99%, WIN their defended case or see it discontinued with no hearing.

Civil Enforcement and MIL cases being the easiest to defend in 2017, and Gladstones & BW Legal robo-claims are so generic and ill-prepared that almost every poster wins. No 'risk' as long as you don't miss court deadlines, you may as well defend and fight. You will likely pay less than is being demanded even if you lose, all over with no effect on your credit rating - you will have cost THEM more.

We hardly ever see any lost. And some (CEL and Smart) don't even proceed, if a case is well defended.

Here are some cases won or in progress:

A typical Civil Enforcement (CEL) generic defence:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5667549

Here's a more bespoke, legally-worded defence v CEL where the OP has rights to park:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72744577#post72744577

Here is one I wrote for a disabled person accused of a few mins overstay (BW Legal for VCS):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rl1e9kocnuwvjzc/Defence - VCS Claim.docx?dl=0

It was in this case: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109054

DO NOT blindly copy that one but you can see how to set it out: numbered, double line-spaced in Times New Roman font 12.


A defence about a car which was authorised by an employer to be unloading in a gated business complex:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71643736#post71643736

A really detailed 'covering every base' defence example is here (BW Legal case again, Excel):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98775 - post #69

A Gladstones defence, using some wording suggested by IamEmanresu:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71552005#post71552005

Another recent Gladstones defence, covering all the bases (a pre-POFA one about a parking event pre-Oct 2012):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71726521#post71726521

Here is a defence from 2017, another Gladstones farce of a claim, about the failure of a Pay by Phone app:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5659621

Here is a defence written for a COMPANY DEFENDANT (Gladstones case, cannot have been driving, POFA not followed by PPM):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98803 - post #80

And one written re 'no permit' allegation from Pace Recovery & Storage Ltd, T/A Ace Security Services, Gladstones case:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5485681 - post #159

If your case is about YOUR OWN SPACE or parking in a residents' car park as a legit visitor, please read THIS from the parking Prankster and also consider doing a counter-claim and/or Letter before Action to the site Managing Agent:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/residential-ticket-only-cancelled-after.html

Here is a defence for an 'own space' residential site, by Johnersh who is legally qualified:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72977032#post72977032

Another Gladstones one, Euro Parking Services for 'not parking within the markings of a bay or space':

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109208 - post #12

an here's some wording to include in a defence when it was a Pay & Display car park with a small tariff allegedly unpaid:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72768984#post72768984


IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT YOU MUST DO AND BY WHEN!

Here is a walk-through the process from defence onwards (i.e. AFTER acknowledgement of service) by Loadsofchildren123:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72244727#post72244727

Here's a summary from bargepole of what happens when, what you MUST do in time, re the paperwork & deadlines:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5546325

Here is his advice about how to set out your defence, which bargepole recommends is best posted:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71228944#post71228944

Irrelevant Defences and How To Avoid Them - what NOT to argue (DO NOT ARGUE ''NO LOSS' OR 'EXTORTIONATE CHARGE'):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5555458

Do not think putting in the defence is your only job. Directions Questionnaire must be completed and returned to the claimant and the court, explained by IamEmanresu:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71763411#post71763411

Once allocated to your local court, you will be given a clear date by which YOU MUST file the evidence ('exhibits') and any Witness Statement (i.e. yours, as bargepole says in the above link!). At witness statement stage (usually NOT LATER THAN 14 DAYS BEFORE YOUR HEARING!) don't forget to file the evidence you will rely upon, which usually should at least include:

(a) a copy of the Beavis case sign as a comparison to show how awful the small print sign was in yours case
(b) photos proving the scarce and illegible small print signs in your case, a view showing the lack of entrance signs, etc.
(c) a video of how it looks from a car is good evidence! You can get a passenger to hold a camera or phone and record the lack of signs seen to the point of parking.
(d) a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA - there is a link to it in post #1 above. The Judge will NOT have this to hand & is unlikely to be familiar with it. This is only applicable if you are defending as keeper.
(e) a copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability' if defending as keeper.
(f) a copy of your lease or tenancy agreement if this is an 'own space' or 'block of flats' dispute where YOU have primacy of contract.
(g) the case transcripts that support your argument (get them from the Parking Prankster's case law page), e.g. if arguing prohibitive 'forbidding parking' signs which offer no contract a driver can accept, you need PCM v Bull; if arguing that this is a residential space where the tenant/leaseholder has already been granted (impliedly or explicitly) the right to park or unload you need Jopson v Home Guard (a persuasive Appeal case heard by a Senior Circuit Judge) and PACE v Mr N, etc.
(h) the IPC or BPA Code of practice, where it supports your case (e.g. the grace periods section 13 of the CoP in a BPA few minutes' 'overstay' claim).
(i) a Pay & Display ticket if you have it in such a case, e.g. if arguing it was displayed. DO NOT ARGUE 'no loss'!

Here's a 'court report' from 2017 from a winner on pepipoo (both forums have lots of such victories):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112656&st=40&p=1296627&#entry1 296627

Here is a thread showing a Witness Statement AND a summary of his day in court. AB Express won at their hearing v VCS:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5070951&page=4

Here is a witness statement written from a registered keeper who was not driving and you can see it is paragraph-numbered throughout and it references numbered exhibits, creating an organised argument with illustrations/evidence:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106959&st=40&p=1225247&#entry1 225247

Here is a court report from MA61 about beating a Gladstones case (NB: we have 100% record here and on that day, 31.5.17, posters won 4 out of 4 cases):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5657908

here is MA61's prep (the other 3 cases won that day were by 'stephthechosenone', Jack Basta and Jinxycat, so read them too):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5650032

and here is a Witness Statement which saw off BW Legal, in a case about a tiny alleged 10p 'owed' because the machine swallowed it:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72186852#post72186852

Here is a Witness Statement I wrote for a person post #5 (a case about a keypad error re the VRN, remember that if this is a 'close match' VRN, it is not proved to be the fault of the driver and could always be a dodgy key on the equipment):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5636211

Here in post #9 is IamEmanresu from here (posting as emanresu on pepipoo) explaining witness statements and skeleton arguments:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106957&st=0&p=1239147&#entry12 39147

Here is a case where I separated the 2 documents into Witness Statement (the facts about letters received, etc.) and the skeleton (legal argument):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72047642#post72047642

Here is a humdinger of a skeleton argument, written in depth and with case law but all relevant, for a residential 'own space' case:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5591251&page=5

Here is a very nicely set out (if long!) skeleton argument including case law, re a short stop (no offer of parking) in a BW Legal case where the registered keeper defendant was not the driver, and VCS did not use the POFA so 'no liability' and 'no contract':

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ojb2w37vx7hhegm/VCS-v-Quayle_Defendant-Skeleton-Argument(rev).pdf?dl=0

And here is a costs schedule, you take this to the hearing and claim your costs for lost wages/leave, your travel, parking(!) etc. if you win:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72079752#post72079752

You CAN claim loss of leave but some Judges do not know this, so have this up your sleeve in your notes in your 'costs schedule': ''27.14.2(e) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for any loss of earnings or loss of leave by a party or witness due to attending a hearing or to staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing''

If you have such a strong case that the Claim was VEXATIOUS, unreasonable and without merit, see this about claiming punitive costs, as written by legally-qualified LoadsofChildren123:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72639343#post72639343


HAVE YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT A CCJ (JUDGMENT FOR CLAIMANT) AND NEED IT SET ASIDE?

Here's how - DO NOT ring the parking firm up...and do not just pay them:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5581374

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585047

You may like to read this thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5619965

...which includes the OP's statement in support of his/her set aside, and an outcome which included the £255 being refunded. They were in and out in 5 minutes and he/she just asked for the £255 to be reimbursed by the non-attending claimant (quite often they don't attend).

And the Judge agreed, all over, claim struck out entirely!

IamEmanresu's summary of your choices:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71776504#post71776504

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72001618#post72001618

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72212851#post72212851



THINK YOU HAVE GROUNDS TO COUNTER-SUE FOR DATA MISUSE UNDER THE DPA? RESEARCH IT CAREFULLY FIRST.

READ TIMOTHEA'S THREAD ABOUT DPA BREACH:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

Some cases lend themselves to a valid counter-claim. Be realistic and informed and get your priorities right and your evidence first. If you still wish to issue a claim for data misuse:

1. Think about who best to claim against. On MCOL you can name up to two defendants = so, the parking firm and the landowner/agent/retailer who contracted them would be the best bet in many cases.

2. Research how to do this properly, it is not for the faint-hearted. You must follow the CPR and issue all parties with a LBCCC first, so read up on how to issue small claims and if in doubt, start a new thread before rushing into it and wasting your court fee.

3. Research the Data Protection Principles. Quote them in your LBCCC, then refer to them in your Particulars of Claim. You do not have to show loss (see Timothea's thread) but you do need to show that the DPA has been breached and that compensation is the remedy - quoting the case law that supports it - and stating how the claimant has suffered distress. Then the Witness Statement later, MUST also explain (in detail) the distress caused by the harassment and misuse of data, as well as the facts of what was received when and what evidence you are relying on (usual stuff, photos of unclear/small font signs; a copy of any lease/tenancy agreement for ''own space'' residential cases, to show your primacy of contract and your unfettered right, already granted, to park).