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Surely they can no longer advertise prices that exclude the debit card fee as it is now impossible to avoid this?
I find this fee such a cheek - afaik that is a flat charge PER TRANSACTION of less than a pound that Ryanair pay for processing card payments but they then charge per person per flight segment so if 2 people book a return Ryanair charge £4 to cover a cost of about 50p - I wonder if there is this much mark-up on their other so called 'Taxes and Charges'. If Martin wanted to start a campaign on this I would be happy to lend any support.
Since Oct 08 BoE Cut Base Rate 4.5% HSBC (Oct 08 'We have the most competitive SVR of the big banks') cut svr by 2.31% - Savings rates cut by 4.5%
Think about how HSBC and First Direct treat existing customers before you become a new customer
Like Michaels just said, I've always wondered about how Ryanair can legally charge a card transaction fee on a per person / per flight basis? I guess it would make sense if Ryanair then actually charged your card on those terms, but they don't. They will only charge your card for the entire cost (i.e. all people / all flights), so how do they get away with that from a legal point of view??
I really think someone with more financial/legal experience should look into this.
(Of course, should Ryanair even change their policy on card charges... you just know that Michael O'Leary will just move the charge somewhere else... what next, paying for the air you breath on his planes?!)
I'm confused about the fees. Here's their list: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=CHARGES it says the baggage fee is £6 for the first bag per flight but when you go to book a flight it shows up as £9 per 1st bag. Anyone know why this is?
If Ryanair want to make profits from card charges, that's one thing - but adding a card fee for each person then charging a single amount to the card seems a very dubious practice to me.
Heres a sneaky way to avoid all those "rip off" charges -----
Dont book
I agree. Someone needs to hit Ryanair where it hurts. All I read on this and other forums is negative comments about the way Ryanair conduct business. All the hidden charges, supposedly FREE flights, misleading adverts .... the list goes on.
Someone "higher" up must step in at some point and investigate. What they are doign can't be 100% legal.
The flipside of the coin however is that even though all of this is happening, their planes go full each and every day!!!
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Most people don't complain when they are getting a "free" flight and paying for taxes or paying £20 for their flights. If people read the T&Cs properly before booking then there might not be so many people on here moaning about them!
Michael O'Leary is a law unto himself, it doesn't matter what he says or does his airline still gets hundreds of bookings per day and their profits continue to soar.
Personally I am not a huge fan of Ryanair and only use them if I have to but the simple rule is if people don't like the charges and the way they operate then fly with a different airline!
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I agree. Someone needs to hit Ryanair where it hurts. All I read on this and other forums is negative comments about the way Ryanair conduct business. All the hidden charges, supposedly FREE flights, misleading adverts .... the list goes on.
Someone "higher" up must step in at some point and investigate. What they are doign can't be 100% legal.
The flipside of the coin however is that even though all of this is happening, their planes go full each and every day!!!
Actually, I meant the opposite. Why do people book and then moan about it?Just add up all the charges . If the total comes to less than similar flight with other airline, book it, if not dont!
I dont want anyone "higher up" stepping in. All that happens is an enquiry costing millions of our 99% hard working, normal peoples money ,paying some Lord lazy git to string it out for a couple of years for a ten page report saying they must include all charges in the price you see, so that the 1% lazy / stupid/ gullible people are protected.
Quote:
You see, in life, lots of people know what to do, but few people actually do what they know. Knowing is not enough! You must take action.
Tony Robbins
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We recently travelled to Tenerife for £20 eachinc all taxes, fees, charges etc return in Dec with Ryanair and Marakesh for £20 each (all inc)in Jan. The hand luggage thing is good it stops us queuing and taking unnecessary stuff.
I appreciate people seem to be upset in this form but you see a list of what you are going to be charged before you click confirm to pay- so if you are not happy with the total price don't pay. Then try to find it cheaper!!
In actual fact it seems that people seems more upset about what ryanair claim to be charging for broken down than the total price. kind of not seeing the wood for the trees
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I had a long chat with a senior manager in a European low cost airline recently about Ryanair. He told me the company basically has two problems: it is hated by its employees and also by an ever increasing number of disgruntled customers! Being ex-Ryanair himself, he had no love for the company, but reckoned it was ruining the low cost sector.
Our conversation came about following a really bad experience I had had with the carrier early last year. A Ryanair flight I was booked on between two non-UK cities was cancelled within minutes of check-in being opened. The ground handling agent working for Ryanair gave passengers two alternatives: accept a refund or be rebooked on the following day's flight. I took the latter, but asked about compensation, which I was told Ryanair would not be offering. When I pointed out that under EU regulations governing airlines it had to offer compensation, I was told that Ryanair wasn't interested! After much haggling, I was given a 2-page sheet outlining the EU directive 261/2004, which clearly states that in this case all passengers are eligible for compensation of 250 euros.
Several other passengers, none of them British, also asked for the sheets. We decided to keep in contact and see how quickly Ryanair would respond.
To put in a claim, you have to write to Ryanair courtesy of Dublin Airport, which I did. I got a reply by email, denying my right to compensation, since there is a clause in 261/2004 allowing airlines to plead “extraordinary circumstances”. In this case, the aircraft had developed an engine problem, which Ryanair says it could not have foreseen, hence they would not cough up.
The presence of this catch-all clause is causing a lot of anger in the industry, since it effectively allows the airline to basically turn down all claims for compensation other than those generated by over-booking! Regulatory bodies are aware of this and there is pressure on them to re-write the directive taking it away.
If you try to reply on Ryanair's email address, you constantly get a “mailbox full” response. Clearly, they want to make it as difficult as possible for disgruntled passengers to pursue claims.
My next step was to approach the Air Transport Users Council (ATUC), which is the designated body within the UK for handling complaints from passengers not happy with responses to their complaints by airlines. The person on the ATUC helpline explained that they get more complaints about Ryanair than any other carrier and that the only way for things to improve was for people not to travel with them. They agreed that, while totally unfair, all airlines were using the “extraordinary circumstances” clause whenever they didn't feel like compensating passengers.
However, Ryanair was obligated as part of the Montreal Convention to pay for any costs associated with care incurred by passengers who have to wait a significant period of time before the next flight. In my case, this was a night in a hotel, meals and transport to and from the airport. I was urged to re-send my claims asking only for this, which I did.
Another standard Ryanair email was duly sent back, again denying all liability to pay me compensation. As with the first email, trying to reply on that address generated a “mailbox full” response from the the other end!
I went back to the ATUC and asked what to do. They asked me to send them a letter explaining what had happened to me with a request that they then act on my behalf. All of which I did.
Around six months later, Ryanair replied, accepting liability, but was only prepared to pay compensation against receipts for hotels, travel and meals. I had nothing for the latter, despite having had to eat lunch, dinner and breakfast during my 24-hour wait. Stupid me! The ATUC told me simply to send those receipts that I had, despite the fact that I had already done this (sending photocopies) in the previous two letters I had sent to Ryanair. When I told the person at ATUC that I had already done this before, they agreed that is was absurd, but pointed out that Ryanair was relying on me getting bored and going away. So, I decided to follow instructions to the letter.
Ryanair actually asked me to FAX my receipts across. Odd, I thought, not everybody has a fax, even though I do. However, every time I tried to fax anything, a looped voice told me that all international telephone lines were busy and that I should try again later. I did and got the same message. I tried again, same message. Tried phoning somebody else in Ireland, got through. Tried Ryanair again, looped message!!!
Not to be put off, tried faxing early evening and got a never-ending ringing phone, which didn't pick up the fact that it was dealing with an incoming fax, despite the fact that the Ryanair line was a dedicated fax line. Finally, at around midnight, my fax and their fax started talking to one another. Guess what: the Ryanair fax machine doesn't seem to have an interface protocol with UK fax machines! I couldn't send a fax.
I was determined not to give up. Instead, I wrote a letter, photocopied the receipts yet again and sent them by snail mail all the way to Ireland again. After about three weeks, a cheque limped in. I cashed it as quickly as possible, convinced it would bounce. It didn't!!
All of the other passengers, none of whom were British, gave up after falling at the first or second hurdles.
I just want to end by pointing out that Ryanair often isn't cheap. Sure, there are headline promotions out there, but many of them carry hidden charges. Also, try booking a flight at short notice or during peak periods and tickets won't be low cost, far from it!
If you Google “Ryanair” and “complaints” you will find I got off quite lightly. There are some real HORROR stories out there
So, if you are offered a cheap flight under Flight Checker and it is Ryanair, my advice would be to think very hard before parting with any cash.
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Very interesting- and it would be very useful to post a version of this on www.flightmole.com.
I am curious as to why Ryanair thinks that EU 261/2004 is ruining the low cost sector.
If the airlines are failing to honour their legal obligations then it cant be hurting them financially-at least so far.
The method by which airlines attempt to defend/distract claims based upon he "extraordinary circumstances" defence is being shown to flawed based upon the precedent/opinions now being produced by the European Court of Justice and how individually tenacious passengers-such as yourself-are obtaining redress.
It also shows how ineffectual many of the National Enforcement Bodies are-including the AUC. How can they complain that the legislation is unfair. What is unfair is that the regulatory body is ill equipped or unwilling to fight on behalf of airline consumers.
There is supposedly a maximum fine of £5000 for breach of EU 261/2004-I'm not sure is this is per case or per passenger ignored/abused. If the former then no wonder the airlines feel content to ignore or show contempt for this legislation.
However, there does not appear to be a time limit for the adancement of these claims by private court action throught the small claims court-save only the usual civil proceedings limitation periods- 6 years in the UK.
At the same time it is becoming clear that the burden of proof to prove "extraordinary cirumstances" is on the airline.
Just like unfair bank charges these liability can accumulate over time and airlines may be storing up considerable liabilities. Unlike banks that have billions of pounds of reserves and hardly feel this litigation any airline could potentially face a lot of financial pain if these liability came home to roost.
The question is do publically quoted airlines make suffiecient provision or warns shareholders of these potential liabilities in their annual accounts/statements etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly_Roger
I had a long chat with a senior manager in a European low cost airline recently about Ryanair. He told me the company basically has two problems: it is hated by its employees and also by an ever increasing number of disgruntled customers! Being ex-Ryanair himself, he had no love for the company, but reckoned it was ruining the low cost sector.
Our conversation came about following a really bad experience I had had with the carrier early last year. A Ryanair flight I was booked on between two non-UK cities was cancelled within minutes of check-in being opened. The ground handling agent working for Ryanair gave passengers two alternatives: accept a refund or be rebooked on the following day's flight. I took the latter, but asked about compensation, which I was told Ryanair would not be offering. When I pointed out that under EU regulations governing airlines it had to offer compensation, I was told that Ryanair wasn't interested! After much haggling, I was given a 2-page sheet outlining the EU directive 261/2004, which clearly states that in this case all passengers are eligible for compensation of 250 euros.
Several other passengers, none of them British, also asked for the sheets. We decided to keep in contact and see how quickly Ryanair would respond.
To put in a claim, you have to write to Ryanair courtesy of Dublin Airport, which I did. I got a reply by email, denying my right to compensation, since there is a clause in 261/2004 allowing airlines to plead “extraordinary circumstances”. In this case, the aircraft had developed an engine problem, which Ryanair says it could not have foreseen, hence they would not cough up.
The presence of this catch-all clause is causing a lot of anger in the industry, since it effectively allows the airline to basically turn down all claims for compensation other than those generated by over-booking! Regulatory bodies are aware of this and there is pressure on them to re-write the directive taking it away.
If you try to reply on Ryanair's email address, you constantly get a “mailbox full” response. Clearly, they want to make it as difficult as possible for disgruntled passengers to pursue claims.
My next step was to approach the Air Transport Users Council (ATUC), which is the designated body within the UK for handling complaints from passengers not happy with responses to their complaints by airlines. The person on the ATUC helpline explained that they get more complaints about Ryanair than any other carrier and that the only way for things to improve was for people not to travel with them. They agreed that, while totally unfair, all airlines were using the “extraordinary circumstances” clause whenever they didn't feel like compensating passengers.
However, Ryanair was obligated as part of the Montreal Convention to pay for any costs associated with care incurred by passengers who have to wait a significant period of time before the next flight. In my case, this was a night in a hotel, meals and transport to and from the airport. I was urged to re-send my claims asking only for this, which I did.
Another standard Ryanair email was duly sent back, again denying all liability to pay me compensation. As with the first email, trying to reply on that address generated a “mailbox full” response from the the other end!
I went back to the ATUC and asked what to do. They asked me to send them a letter explaining what had happened to me with a request that they then act on my behalf. All of which I did.
Around six months later, Ryanair replied, accepting liability, but was only prepared to pay compensation against receipts for hotels, travel and meals. I had nothing for the latter, despite having had to eat lunch, dinner and breakfast during my 24-hour wait. Stupid me! The ATUC told me simply to send those receipts that I had, despite the fact that I had already done this (sending photocopies) in the previous two letters I had sent to Ryanair. When I told the person at ATUC that I had already done this before, they agreed that is was absurd, but pointed out that Ryanair was relying on me getting bored and going away. So, I decided to follow instructions to the letter.
Ryanair actually asked me to FAX my receipts across. Odd, I thought, not everybody has a fax, even though I do. However, every time I tried to fax anything, a looped voice told me that all international telephone lines were busy and that I should try again later. I did and got the same message. I tried again, same message. Tried phoning somebody else in Ireland, got through. Tried Ryanair again, looped message!!!
Not to be put off, tried faxing early evening and got a never-ending ringing phone, which didn't pick up the fact that it was dealing with an incoming fax, despite the fact that the Ryanair line was a dedicated fax line. Finally, at around midnight, my fax and their fax started talking to one another. Guess what: the Ryanair fax machine doesn't seem to have an interface protocol with UK fax machines! I couldn't send a fax.
I was determined not to give up. Instead, I wrote a letter, photocopied the receipts yet again and sent them by snail mail all the way to Ireland again. After about three weeks, a cheque limped in. I cashed it as quickly as possible, convinced it would bounce. It didn't!!
All of the other passengers, none of whom were British, gave up after falling at the first or second hurdles.
I just want to end by pointing out that Ryanair often isn't cheap. Sure, there are headline promotions out there, but many of them carry hidden charges. Also, try booking a flight at short notice or during peak periods and tickets won't be low cost, far from it!
If you Google “Ryanair” and “complaints” you will find I got off quite lightly. There are some real HORROR stories out there
So, if you are offered a cheap flight under Flight Checker and it is Ryanair, my advice would be to think very hard before parting with any cash.
I've been flying with Ryanair for 21 years, shortly after they started up. My first flight Luton - Dublin £100. Next week I will be doing my third trip with them this year (and the most expensive) to Maribor (Slovenia) for £22 inc taxes. Ryanair do what they say on 'the tin' If you don't like them, fly with another Airline.
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I've been flying with Ryanair for 21 years, shortly after they started up. My first flight Luton - Dublin £100. Next week I will be doing my third trip with them this year (and the most expensive) to Maribor (Slovenia) for £22 inc taxes. Ryanair do what they say on 'the tin' If you don't like them, fly with another Airline.
yep. as sure as night follows day, here comes another ryanair hugger.
talking of which, where's glennthebaker?
'ryanair do what they say on the tin'.
yeah, right.
except they didn't in the OP's case. or thousands of others.
I gave up using this shoddy little outfit after the 4th disastrous trip.
ryanair's website should come with a health warning: we don't always do what it says on the tin. pay your money and take your chances.we'll make it as difficult as possible for you to make a claim.
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board.
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps.
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