An open note to all mortgage brokers

MSE_Martin · 6 December 2006 at 8:47PM

Dear Mortgage Brokers,

I am extremely saddened by the outbreak of civil war that seems to have happened on here. I have already written much of this content earlier in the appropriate thread, yet as it hasn't been read let me write it here.

What we can do to resolve the unhappiness

This was and still is addressed to dunstonh, as one of the longest standing brokers on this board and if he is willing to do this the invite is to him. If not I will ask someone else to undertake it.

Dear Dunstonh

As you know, I set good store in your view. So perhaps you would like to help us all out. Feel free to say no if you can't commit the time

It seems to me we urgently need two recommendations and I would like the brokers on the board to be happy and feel comfortable with them.

1. On the issue of signatures for brokers

2. On what guidance for brokers we can lay on the board for how to behave in a way that won't be seen as touting for business (im not suggesting people are - im suggesting how we protect people from being perceived as such when it isn't appropriate)

Yet I would ask this is done with a view to the fact that people are entitled to an 'anti-broker' attitude and that free expression on here of that view point is important.

If you would like to suggest some balanced recommendations I would be happy to listen. Perhaps we can start one thread on this (wider than the signature issue) and you can bring it together to do it. I will listen favourably.

Yet I think this thread is a useful one to read. This is written after advice and lays out my position and the site's position on advice based info quite clearly.

It quite deliberately implies a. Advisers cannot be held above others in terms of view and even if they could, that would involve checks on who the advisers are, something we can't do. b. That we can't referree over 'good or bad' advice, that simply isn't the site's role within a chat forum - and will always be the role of the invididual poster and we aim to keep the resource taken by abuse enquiries here to a minimum.

I hope this is a reasonable compromise. My aim is to have this forum back to helping people with their issues to get the best mortgages, and avoid any nasty's lenders throw at them.

Once we get some form of understanding (and i would invite non-brokers to engage in this too) then hopefully we can turn back to a smoother process.

If you are not willing to take it on - i totally understand - and its not a problem - you just seem to be the right person for the job.

Martin

An addendum

This was written earlier. Frankly some of the rather nasty things that have been said and PM'd (not by Dunstonh I hasten to add) almost made me not repost this and retract it. However I think a bigger service is due to the users and people who come to this site. So I have left it.

I ask that we try and work consensually towards making this forum work both for the users and for the brokers who put in the time to help. I have always asked for that and in the past it has been done - it saddens me that again we come to this impass.

I hope we'll find a way through it

kenshaz · 6 December 2006 at 9:31PM

I feel positive about your approach,and happy in the knowledge that as an individual ,I will be able to express my views in a free and open manner ,without being open to constant ridicule for daring to disagree.

I enjoy this site and the pleasure it gives ,it is stimulating and informative ,with constant interaction and debate ,your moderators have a difficult task and I believe that they have achieved a relative state of management and maintained the principles of the site without stifling debate.
I will reflect and try to achieve your objections .

Leon_W · 6 December 2006 at 9:40PM

I've managed to pretty much keep out of the recent spats that have occured over the last few days, but as a fairly level headed individual, and someone who can generally see both sides of an argument, I'll gladly chip in my thoughts.

Firstly, on the issue of signatures. If you are a broker I think it fair that that should be disclosed. How it is done is not really an issue, just a one line "I am a mortgage broker" would suffice. I don't think anyone would disagree with that and board readers could distinguish between what a qualified person and lay person is posting.

Now, when a poster poses a question or asks for a pointer in the right direction there are many brokers willing to answer these without any thought for themselves. A valuable service to the board I hope you'll agree. But of late one particular poster, kenshaz, has repeatedly hounded brokers around the boards posting links to London & Country and basically accusing brokers of posting for their own ends. I see little evidence of brokers posting for their own ends. If the original posters question needs more consideration then invariably the advice is "go and see a broker", any broker, and yes, L & C if that's what you want.

I would say that most of the brokers here are not particularly bothered about London and Country and the links to this board, I know I'm not, but to have it repeatedly rammed down your throat by kenshaz is a bit much.

I give of my time freely and without condition (in fact I am uncontactable through this board) as we can all learn from peoples different positions and scenarios, brokers included. In fact I've read several posts which have helped me help my client better because of this board.

What if the brokers went ? I feel the board would be much poorer for it. People posting, often in dire straights would be taking so called "advice" from who ? kenshaz ? A frightening thought. I have seen some threads with downright poor recommendations from armchair advisers which could have cost some people very dear. Am I just to sit back and say let them get on with it or try and genuinely help ? I think the latter is preferable.

So to round up. Most of the brokers here are a pretty good bunch and I see little evidence of self interest. If we feel that we are being hounded, we'll go, and the board will be poorer for it (only one poster does the hounding, kenshaz). Most of the brokers have been thanked many times, its there in the stats so we can't be that bad !

Just my two penneth.

Take it easy guys.

EdInvestor · 6 December 2006 at 9:40PM

Hi kenshaz

kenshaz wrote:

I feel positive about your approach,and happy in the knowledge that I as an individual ,will be able to express my views in a free and open manner without being open to constant ridicule for daring to disagree.

Could you perhaps explain what you disagree with exactly? It does not seem to be the quality of the advice offered ( you never seem to offer any alternative): rather you seem to think that these mortgage brokers should not be posting here at all.Yet it is quite clear that they are welcomed by Martin.

Some clarification would be helpful about exactly what the problem is from your point of view.Could you also clarify your opinion on whether or not they should have signatures identifying them as brokers or not?

MortgageMamma · 6 December 2006 at 9:40PM

Kenshaz, although you have annoyed me, and wound me up no end with your personal attacks, being the sensible person I am, I am going to put this behind me and forget it happened, so as to regain and preserve the normal friendly and infomative nature of the site.

In doing this, I ask, sincerely, that you reconsider your perceptions and attitude towards the mortgage brokers that have helped on this site on a regular basis, and desist in attacking them or spamming links. I feel the discussion has worn itself out, and tolerance is the key.

I am aware certain people will always attack my occupation, there will always be those who suspect an ulterior motive. Its ok to say that, but just once. Lets not make this forum a sounding ground for our individual causes.

I do appreciate the efforts that are now being made by Martin to resolve issues, and if a conclusion is reached of what is and is not acceptable in terms of signatures and broker behaviours in general, then in all likelihood I will continue to support the mortgages and endowments forums and care for the financial wellbeing of forum users in the same manner I have for the past year.

regularsaver1 · 6 December 2006 at 9:49PM

Come on guys - lets just get back to being a friendly forum, where people visit in their spare time.

A lot of people get help in one way or another from here. There are plently of brokers and advisers in this country. It is those that give help on here too, but if we can learn from anyone on this forum, regardless of their position, stauts, gender, age ect ect ect

I feel eveyone can post, regardless of their position. everyone has a view, but there is a manner of doing things politely, instead of stepping on someones toes or throwing things down people's throat. This is a chat forum so everyone is welcome to post things, that are in no means personal

Lisa x

EDIT - I wanted to add my personal view. sorry to intrude

KTF · 6 December 2006 at 9:51PM

I think the forum would lose something is all the brokers vanished. The information and knowledge they have is what brought me here for advice in the first place.

MSE_Martin · 6 December 2006 at 9:52PM

Tell you what guys. Lets not go into individual posters here one way or the other. More importantly is a route going forward.

Im going to try and keep a track of this. However I am very very snowed at the moment, and hence why i asked dunstonh if he'd be willing to keep ontop of the general consensus - as I want it to be an inclusive discussion.

Martin

kenshaz · 6 December 2006 at 9:53PM

I am prepared to wipe the slate clean and start afresh,if we continue to discuss the trivia of previous posts we make no progress.I do this out of respect for Martin and his team ,I make no apolgies for my views and principles I am entitled to hold them because I can,but I realise how important it is to maintain a stable forum for the benefit of those who require help.I will therefore remain active and attempt to be considerate and view the situation from all perspectives.

MortgageMamma · 6 December 2006 at 9:59PM

kenshaz wrote:

I am prepared to wipe the slate clean and start afresh,if we continue to discuss the trivia of previous posts we make no progress.I do this out of respect for Martin and his team ,I make no apolgies for my views and principles I am entitled to hold them because I can,but I realise how important it is to maintain a stable forum for the benefit of those who require help.I will therefore remain active and attempt to be considerate and view the siituation from all perspectives.

Thank you kenshaz, I appreciate your commitment to this. I will not bring up any of the previous issues.

Leon_W · 6 December 2006 at 10:02PM

I'm sorry but i'm very much going to go into individual posters because all the problems of late relate to one posters actions.

If you read the threads as I do, it always comes down to kenshaz stirring it. Some others may be to polite to say, but I'm not one to beat around the bush.

Of course he has the right to input, and I'm all for free speach, but he doesn't actually input anything, just lazily posting the same old links to the guides and L&C which anyone can read for themselves (the links are pretty obvious afterall). It gets up my nose when I spend a good 15 minutes trying to help someone with a reasoned post just to be denegrated by kenshaz.

An open note to all mortgage brokers

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