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Madasafish Questions/answers (merged threads)
Comments
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Harryhound
If I understand your tests correctly, tests 3 and 4 prove that it your extension wiring, so no further test are necessary. What is the total length of the extension wiring from the master socket and are the garden bell and the walk-about-telephone docked in the kitchen both plugged into the same extension socket?
One simply thing that you could try, is to try removing any wires connected to terminal 3 of your master socket face plate, as these are not required on an ADSL enabled line.
Hi espresso,
Today I carried out an experiment:
I have a bell-within-a-bell on the outside of my home (a 15cm bell is nested with one about 13 cm in diameter and a clapper vibrates between them); this garden bell is wired across terminals 5 & 3 through a filter and a BT type plug.
I switched the wires within the bell's terminal block to wire it across terminals 5 & 2.
The bell did not like this arrangement.
Phoning my number produced one ring then silence and terminating the call, before the telephone answering machine got in on the act, produced a second ring. (The bell always did give a tinkle at the end of a 'phone call, and yes it does have one of those circular green "BT approves" stickers.).
It looks like electro-mechanical kit like this still needs the ring wire ?
On balance the garden bell is more useful to me, than the increased speed of broadband connection (I just love sprinting into the kitchen, kicking off the wellies & diving for the 'phone, before the answering machine gets in on the act). So I will have to live with the 25 meters of "bell" wire, reaching to the exterior bell and probably collecting lots of "noise".
Many thanks for your interest.
Harry.
PS. The saga of my conversion to broadband is back at posting #854.0 -
harryhound wrote: »Hi espresso,
Today I carried out an experiment:
I have a bell-within-a-bell on the outside of my home (a 15cm bell is nested with one about 13 cm in diameter and a clapper vibrates between them); this garden bell is wired across terminals 5 & 3 through a filter and a BT type plug.
I switched the wires within the bell's terminal block to wire it across terminals 5 & 2............
:doh:
harryhound
You have completely misunderstood the simple instructions and made up your own invalid experiment to perform! No suggestion was ever made to change your extension wiring. By connecting the bell across the line (2 & 5) you have effectively bypassed the ADSL filter, which as you have found does not work!
On a non ADSL enabled line, pin 3 is used to provide ringing current to the internal extension wiring, derived at the master socket. i.e. two wires in and four wires out (two pairs), except pin 4 is not used.
After the line has been ADSL enabled, if any telephony devices are to be used on the line, ADSL filters are needed to separate the high frequency ADSL signal from the low frequency telephony. Therefore pin 3 is now redundant, due to the ringing current being derived in the ADSL filter/s, hence pin 3 can now be disconnected at the master socket as previously suggested. This prevents this unbalanced wire, acting as a long aerial and inducing noise onto the active line pair (2 & 5). Any noise picked up on your extension wiring will reduce the signal to nose and lower your connection speed.
Hope that helps.:doh: Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..:wall:0 -
Hi espresso,
Sorry wrong terminology.
When I said I tried wiring the bell across 5 & 2, I was trying to avoid the nonsense of the BT plugs being numbered the exactly opposite way round from the sockets into which they are plugged (nice one!).
My bell is at the end of a 4 core cable. The other end is a transparent plug that plugs into the filter. When on the advice of both BT and the bod at Maplin, I wired it directly into the extension socket, the broadband speed started falling off a cliff and after a couple of hours gave up completely (see posting #854)
My experiment was to switch one of the wires within the bell housing. It is relatively easy as the bell has barrel screw terminals; then the "outer pair" of wires were now servicing the bell. The bell tried to ring but failed, except for a feeble effort at the start and finish of the call.
At the time of my experiment, only the bell was plugged into the filter. Normally the filter serves both the kitchen-walk-about-phone and the bell via an "adaptor/splitter" between filter and bell/kitchen-phone.
I have tried both filters in the master socket, and they seemed to give the same performance to the initial phone and the router/PC.
So there must be a ring tone being fed to socket terminal 3, presumably created in the master socket before any filters get in on the act ? Only this pulse seems to be powerful enough to work the garden bell?
Kind regards,
Harry.0 -
:doh:
harryhound
You have completely misunderstood the simple instructions and made up your own invalid experiment to perform!
Here are espresso's instructions, this time with pictures!!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php0 -
harryhound
Your posts are contradictory.When on the advice of both BT and the bod at Maplin, I wired it directly into the extension socket, the broadband speed started falling off a cliff and after a couple of hours gave up completely (see posting #854)
So obviously your external bell needs filtering.Normally the filter serves both the kitchen-walk-about-phone and the bell via an "adaptor/splitter" between filter and bell/kitchen-phone.
If your bell is normally connected via a filter, it is getting it's ringing from the filter because pin 3 of a filter plug is not connected.So there must be a ring tone being fed to socket terminal 3, presumably created in the master socket before any filters get in on the act ? Only this pulse seems to be powerful enough to work the garden bell?
Not if it is connected to an ADSL filter. Have you actually tried disconnecting the wire from terminal 3 at the master socket, with everything else wired as it was previously?:doh: Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..:wall:0 -
Hi espresso,
I think I have the explanation as to why we are talking at cross purposes.
I will try again:
There are two wires coming from the telephone exchange to the master socket in the house.
Before broadband (BBB) these wires supplied a telephone call-dialling tone, sometimes overlaid with alternating current to ring the bell.
At the master socket there is extra circuitry, mainly a very big resistance and a capacitor, that allows just the ring signal to pass onto a third "ring" wire.
(Though of course the ring signal is still in the original pair as well.) Some kit expects to receive its ring signal from this third wire.
Looking at a BT plug the "ring is on the right"; that is looking at the BT plug as though pushing it away from you, there is a sprung latch on the right & 4 golden contacts. The outside two of these four contacts carry the original A & B wire signals that came from the telephone exchange. Of the inner pair, the one on the right nearer to the spring latch carries the "ring" signal.
My big garden bell uses the contact furthest from the spring latch together with the "ring" contact (the one of the inner pair that is nearest to the latch)
Before Broad Band the ring in this wire would have been supplied all the way from the master socket.
Now after broad band or ADSL as we will call it, the circuit in the master filter that creates the signal in the ring wire, is wasting its time. The only thing plugged into the master and slave sockets is now a "filter". This filter does not bother to use the "ring" wire connector in its plug; amongst its other functions, it separates out a ring signal for itself and supplies this filtered ring signal to its socket; ready to be picked up by the contact that is second from the right on any plug, inserted into its socket.
My bell and probably my kitchen 'phone, are collecting their ring signals from "their" shared filter, via their ring wires, in this way.
Now for the punch line:
THIS MEANS THERE IS A LONG LENGTH OF "RING" WIRE, CONNECTING BACK TO MY MASTER SOCKET. IT IS REDUNDANT. ITS ONLY FUNCTION NOW IS TO COLLECT AND TRANSMIT "NOISE" BACKWARDS INTO THE MASTER SOCKET, THUS INTERFERING WITH THE CLARITY OF THE BB SIGNAL ?
Is this my light bulb moment ?:idea:
SO DISCONNECTING THE "RING" WIRE FROM MY MASTER SOCKET WILL MAKE NO IMMEDIATE DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING, BUT I SHOULD SHOW AN INCREASE IN SYNC RATE AND IN DUE COURSE IN MY BROADBAND SPEED.0 -
harryhound wrote: »Hi espresso,
THIS MEANS THERE IS A LONG LENGTH OF "RING" WIRE, CONNECTING BACK TO MY MASTER SOCKET. IT IS REDUNDANT. ITS ONLY FUNCTION NOW IS TO COLLECT AND TRANSMIT "NOISE" BACKWARDS INTO THE MASTER SOCKET, THUS INTERFERING WITH THE CLARITY OF THE BB SIGNAL ?
Is this my light bulb moment ?:idea:.
Yes, I think that you now fully understand what was originally suggested in post #1062harryhound wrote: »SO DISCONNECTING THE "RING" WIRE FROM MY MASTER SOCKET WILL MAKE NO IMMEDIATE DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING, BUT I SHOULD SHOW AN INCREASE IN SYNC RATE AND IN DUE COURSE IN MY BROADBAND SPEED.
Yes, that is the theory, as this wire is no longer functionally required and as it is only acting as a rather long aerial, disconnecting it at the master socket, should improve your signal to noise ratio and hence your connection speed.
You have already proved that your speed drop is due to your extension wiring, so it should be very easy to disconnect this wire as a simple experiment. It can't make things worse if it is not being used and hopefully with have a positive effect on your speed.:doh: Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..:wall:0 -
Hi espresso,
BEFORE THE SNIP:
Statistics........... Downstream...... Upstream
Line Rate ............3776 Kbps .........448 Kbps
Noise Margin.......... 5.8 dB ............22.0 dB
Line Attenuation..... 45.0 dB.......... 25.0 dB
AFTER THE SNIP:
Statistics ............Downstream ...Upstream
Line Rate..............5248 Kbps ....448 Kbps :j :j
Noise Margin......... 6.1 dB......... 22.0 dB
Line Attenuation... 44.0 dB........ 25.0 dB
Output Power....... 19.5 dBm...... 11.9 dBm
Many thanks :beer:
Lets hope the message will get through to BT this week.
Harry.0 -
Give them the 3 days, then you should see the speed improve. (Do a speedtest now to set a base)0
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