Mobiles.co.uk Problems, going around in circles.

stuartmroberts · 16 January 2010 at 9:51PM

silk,

do you agree with me though , as a company i reckon they are not far away from
being a really good company. Just seems a shame though as it was obvious to me the staff are all told to stick to their guns and never budge.

If only they could sort out some customer service they would be quids in.

Silk wrote: »

Hi Stuart,
Fingers crossed it should be as you have the CEO at CPW involved and Voda are up to speed should be OK.
As you say shame it had to come to that.

I've never had one although one was promised by Ben as was explanations etc etc but we won't go into that.
I do think CPW deserve a good word for this though :cool:

He very rarely seems to ! he never replied to any of mine nor has he replied to many others on here.
Perhaps you win a prize if he actualy replies to you :rotfl:

Good luck with it

Silk · 17 January 2010 at 1:24AM

stuartmroberts wrote: »

silk,

do you agree with me though , as a company i reckon they are not far away from
being a really good company. Just seems a shame though as it was obvious to me the staff are all told to stick to their guns and never budge.

If only they could sort out some customer service they would be quids in.

Hi Stuart,
Don't be silly, you know what I'm going to say :rotfl:

No as a serious answer they have got a long way to go.
By all accounts they seem to have had a decent company before CPW took over.
A major problem in business is that it takes a long time to build up a good reputation and a short time to lose it !
Trying to get that reputation back will be an uphill struggle, and sadly they don't even seem to be trying at the moment reading the many threads on here and elsewhere

Probably points to middle management but who's to know ????

Guys_Dad · 17 January 2010 at 11:54AM

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative wrote: »

Hi,

The cart states in big, bold writing that all Vodafone ports must be confirmed prior to placing the order, and that we need the PAC code at this point or a later port will not be possible.

I can't post an image but it's very, very obvious and does warn of the consequences of not entering the PAC code - again, next to the PAC code box is a link "Why is this important?" which explains it again.

Sorry that you were not able to port your number post-connection but unfortunately we are at the mercy of Vodafone's systems and are unable to help in this instance.

Please note that Vodafone can perform the port after connection but they will only do so in exceptional circumstances.

Regards,

You are quite right, Ben, and I apologise. It really could not be clearer.

The ordering process has the following words in their own section before the "Checkout" button.

To port your existing number to Vodafone you must request a PAC code from your current network and supply it to us below before continuing with your order, or the transfer will not be possible. The porting process can take several days.

PAC Code (if you wish to port): ..............................

Now it is a bit unfair to have a whole thread virtually knocking mobiles.co.uk when they have clearly made such a visible warning on their order screen and the OP didn't bother to read it.

I can't help thinking that if it had been any other company apart from a CPW company - particularly this one - that the resident mobiles.co.uk knockers would have pointed out to the OP that they should read what they are signing up to before completing the order.

Having spent quite some time getting Vodafone to reinstste 2 PAC code transfers that they have cocked up recently, I am not surprised that any 3rd party reseller is reluctant to commit any back-office time to sort out customers' mistakes and I think that it is only because of the current spate of mobiles.co.uk knocking that they or CPW head office are taking addiional time to try to get some goodwill back rather than sticking 2 fingers up and referring the customer back to the order process screen and their confirmation of having read mobiles.co.uk's t&c.

Silk · 17 January 2010 at 12:23PM

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Now it is a bit unfair to have a whole thread virtually knocking mobiles.co.uk when they have clearly made such a visible warning on their order screen and the OP didn't bother to read it.

I can't help thinking that if it had been any other company apart from a CPW company - particularly this one - that the resident mobiles.co.uk knockers would have pointed out to the OP that they should read what they are signing up to before completing the order.

Hi GD,
It's funny how people see different aspects of a thread

Yes the OP made a genuine mistake and haven't we we all at some time or other.

The thread to me seemed to have been about mobiles.co.uk not complying with the OP's legal right to cancel

Guys_Dad · 17 January 2010 at 12:42PM

Morning Silk,

I take your point, but did you read what I wrote in another post recently. see http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=28845553&highlight=#post28845553

Put aside mobiles.co.uk for a minute. The point of that post is that the minute you use a sim to make a call within your 7 day cooling off period, you lose the right to cancel the network contract.

Now it may seem a bit harsh when the only call has been a 191 to Vodafone, but how could a 3rd party reseller know from a returned used sim if it had been used or not? And any sim broken off from its holder is not able to be sold again as new?

Any resolution with a network would be time consuming and put retail dealers' costs up with a knock on effect on prices.

Once again, and I quote from my other post above

Quote from http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft913.pdf.

"Different rules apply to services where the consumer agrees that the service starts before the usual cancellation period expires. These are:
• where you have supplied the required durable information before the service starts and the consumer agrees to the service starting before the end of the usual cancellation period, their cancellation rights will end when performance of the service starts"

So for absolute clarity - although can return a free phone within 7 days, the law says you can only cancel the network part of the contract within 7 days if you don't use the sim to make a call. If a network or dealer allows you to cancel within 7 days if you have used the sim, they are doing that out of goodwill.

stuartmroberts · 17 January 2010 at 8:09PM

That may be the case but when you receive your phone you receive instructions about what to do to port your number,

It tells you to call your existing providor

then switch on your new phone and call your new networkwith your pac code.

They need to stop putting this paperwork in with new vodafone contracts and instead put a warning message about your number port not being possible before you insert your sim

also what so may posters are missing is the fact,

I did indeed try for 2 days to contact mobiles with no answer i then called vodafone ( this is the bit that caused all of the problems). If i had not of called vodafone and taken their advice then i would be now stuck with a 2 year contract of no use.

I did make a mistake in the outset yes but I have had phones from other compaies in the past changed my mind and returned them with no fuss, quite happy to pay for the usage which i had used.

The only reason i rang vodafone was because mobiles were a nightmare to contact.

Its all over now though and hopefully i can move on

Guys_Dad wrote: »

You are quite right, Ben, and I apologise. It really could not be clearer.

The ordering process has the following words in their own section before the "Checkout" button.
To port your existing number to Vodafone you must request a PAC code from your current network and supply it to us below before continuing with your order, or the transfer will not be possible. The porting process can take several days.

PAC Code (if you wish to port): ..............................
Now it is a bit unfair to have a whole thread virtually knocking mobiles.co.uk when they have clearly made such a visible warning on their order screen and the OP didn't bother to read it.

I can't help thinking that if it had been any other company apart from a CPW company - particularly this one - that the resident mobiles.co.uk knockers would have pointed out to the OP that they should read what they are signing up to before completing the order.

Having spent quite some time getting Vodafone to reinstste 2 PAC code transfers that they have cocked up recently, I am not surprised that any 3rd party reseller is reluctant to commit any back-office time to sort out customers' mistakes and I think that it is only because of the current spate of mobiles.co.uk knocking that they or CPW head office are taking addiional time to try to get some goodwill back rather than sticking 2 fingers up and referring the customer back to the order process screen and their confirmation of having read mobiles.co.uk's t&c.

Guys_Dad · 18 January 2010 at 2:25PM

stuartmroberts wrote: »

That may be the case but when you receive your phone you receive instructions about what to do to port your number,

It tells you to call your existing providor

then switch on your new phone and call your new networkwith your pac code.

They need to stop putting this paperwork in with new vodafone contracts and instead put a warning message about your number port not being possible before you insert your sim

I take that point entirely, but I do not have the experience as I have not worked in a mobile reseller to know if, at the point when you received the phone & sim,with the obviously incorrect wording for Vodafone sales, it was already too late to transfer your number, leaving you with the only option to return the whole package and start again.

There should also be a clear warning saying about losing your right to cancel the airtime contract if you use the sim within 7 days, but I guess that would mean more returns having to be accepted.

The warning I have given, nonetheless, I believe is correct and redefines people's misconceptions of their legal rights under distance selling.

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 18 January 2010 at 3:14PM

Guys_Dad wrote: »

There should also be a clear warning saying about losing your right to cancel the airtime contract if you use the sim within 7 days, but I guess that would mean more returns having to be accepted.

The warning I have given, nonetheless, I believe is correct and redefines people's misconceptions of their legal rights under distance selling.

It lines up perfectly with our understanding of the rules, as discussed with Trading Standards and our own Legal team. Provision of service is deemed acceptance of the goods provided.

The SIM cards are in envelopes stating that usage (actually breaking the SIM from the holder) signifies acceptance, so we have that covered too - customers are advised upfront about their rights and responsibilities under DSR.

Regards,

Guys_Dad · 18 January 2010 at 4:20PM

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative wrote: »

It lines up perfectly with our understanding of the rules, as discussed with Trading Standards and our own Legal team. Provision of service is deemed acceptance of the goods provided.

The SIM cards are in envelopes stating that usage (actually breaking the SIM from the holder) signifies acceptance, so we have that covered too - customers are advised upfront about their rights and responsibilities under DSR.

Regards,

You are, of course, partially correct but only as far as the network element goes. Any purchaser would be free to return the mobile phone and retain the contract, should they wish, but clearly that would be daft.

But you must see that, from the number of threads on this forum alone, that buyers get completely the wrong message about the DSR and the contracts, and that is partly due to the way in which mobiles phones are sold.

The advertising and the created desire is all around the particular phone and not the fact that the contract is the expensive thing and the service is what it is really all about. People talk about getting a new phone and not a new contract. And you, the retailers, tell them that they have 7 / 14 days to change their minds. But that only applies to the phone and not the sim, once opened.

If you had on your web site in bold, and also on the sim packet words to the effect "Open this packet and you can not return cancel the 18 month / 2 year network contract", then that would be far better.

And on this point, can you explain why so many MSE contributors seem to be being told by the network when they contact them that they can cancel the contract even if the sim is opened? This seems to be the case in this thread.

Clearly it is most unsatisfactory all round and even some regular contributors are clearly wrong with their knowledge of this aspect of the Distance Selling Regulations.

Silk · 18 January 2010 at 5:50PM

The problem here is that we are talking about two different things here.

First of all theres the DSR's which as I pointed out on here somewhere else is basicaly

If you take out a mobile phone service contract online, by mail order or over the phone, the Distance Selling Regulations say you have the right to cancel the order and receive a full refund for up to 7 working days from the day after you place the mobile phone order. You do not have to give a reason for canceling the mobile phone service. However, you waive your distance selling cancellation rights if you ask for the mobile phone service to start immediately

If you buy a mobile handset online, by mail order or over the phone without also taking out a mobile service contract, you have 7 working days from the day after you receive the mobile handset to cancel the order with the mobile retailer and receive a refund for the mobile handset (obviously you must return the handset)

We then have the mobiles.co.uk's T&C's put together by their legal team stating that you lose these rights by inserting the sim card.

Whilst the implication is that they are complying with DSR's they are obviously not by adding the sim card clause to the T&C's

Under DSR's the consumer has the right on receipt of the goods to check and test the goods to ensure they are happy with them.

If they are not happy they are entitled to return the goods without giving a reason within the time limit etc etc

The networks abide by these rules such as O2 allow you to use the sim card etc and still return the phone with used card and even give you 14 days not 7 to do so etc etc which futher defends the DSR's

Thers lots of problems on the Net regarding mobiles.co.uk and the refusal to cancel due to the sim card clause.

The consumer has this covered by the OFT's "Unfair T&C's'" and should be contacted should needs arise due to T&C's being enforced which remove rights from the consumer.

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative wrote: »

It lines up perfectly with our understanding of the rules, as discussed with Trading Standards and our own Legal team. Provision of service is deemed acceptance of the goods provided.

Hi Ben,
You say this as though it has the approval of the OFT ?
Are you on the OFT's list of approved suppliers ?
Does your T&C's have the approved OFT insignia ?

Mobiles.co.uk Problems, going around in circles.

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