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Monarch delays & Compensations. Listed flights denied in O.P.

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  • That was the reason for me posting my question, just wanted to know if this was always the case, before taking legal action? My thinking was that a problem on a previous journey shouldn't then be seen as EC on our journey. Thank you
  • Mark2spark
    Mark2spark Posts: 2,306 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Ok this question is coming up more and more so i'm going to do a lengthy reply and explain it as I see it.
    Coffee first lol
  • Thank you, appreciate your help.
  • Mark2spark
    Mark2spark Posts: 2,306 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 17 February 2013 at 11:29PM
    The question of whether a fault with the previous flight (knock on effect) is a good enough reason for an airline to claim that an Extraordinary Circumstance exists, has arisen more than once, so I'll attempt to explain it as I see it.
    Firstly, I'm not a lawyer, so this is just my take on it.

    You won't find in any of the EU rulings a line that says 'knock on effects are ok / not ok'. You have to read different parts of different regs and rules to arrive at the conclusion.

    In the EU 261/2004 ruling, at points 14 & 15, you will read that;
    "(EC's exist)...in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier."
    and:
    "Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation..."
    So, there are two mentions of situations where circumstances exist which could be claimed as EC's, but ONLY in relation to the flight concerned, on a particular day.

    So, leaving aside the separate argument of whether a 'tech issue' is indeed an EC or not, the 'tech issue' offered by the airline, as an EC, to absolve them from compensation payouts, has to pertain to the flight concerned, ie YOUR FLIGHT, and not a previous flight, for it to be covered within the wording of the EU261 Regulation.
    The separate argument is of course whether this said 'tech issue' stems from an event, - an EC - that is beyond the control of the airline. Like whether the weather caused the problem, or whether a terrorist attack started it off.
    An unexpected issue like a flat tyre is not something that is not inherent in the normal exercise of the running of an airline on a day to day basis.

    A further judgement, referred to as Finnair Oyj v Timy Lassooy Case C-22/11, at point 37, states that;
    " In addition, it is apparent from recital 15 in the preamble to Regulation No 261/2004 that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may relate only to ‘a particular aircraft on a particular day’, which cannot apply to a passenger denied boarding because of the rescheduling of flights as a result of extraordinary circumstances affecting an earlier flight. The concept of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ is intended to limit the obligations of an air carrier – or even exempt it from those obligations – when the event in question could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. "
    So further evidence of knock on effects not counting as EC's, (from a previous day/flight) exists.
  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,111 Forumite
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    with all of the techs claimed as ecs have you guys looked at which aircraft these oiccurred on? If there is a repeat history with aircraft then that cannot be EC, just poor maintenance.
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  • 111KAB
    111KAB Posts: 3,645 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    JPears wrote: »
    with all of the techs claimed as ecs have you guys looked at which aircraft these oiccurred on? If there is a repeat history with aircraft then that cannot be EC, just poor maintenance.

    I have this situation with my claim however as my claim is active and court dates etc set I will hold off explaining until after the 'event'.
  • richardw
    richardw Posts: 19,459 Forumite
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    Have you done some analysis and noticed a pattern 111KAB?
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
  • richardw
    richardw Posts: 19,459 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
  • 111KAB
    111KAB Posts: 3,645 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    richardw wrote: »
    Have you done some analysis and noticed a pattern 111KAB?

    With the particular problem with my delay I have found a repetitive problem however on Mark's list on page one my Monarch flight is the only one with this problem however I know that quite a few other airlines have experienced.
  • 111KAB
    111KAB Posts: 3,645 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    richardw wrote: »

    They are also seeking quite a number of experienced pilots as it seems they have two new Airbus about to be delivered and 1 or 2 s/h Airbus planes to arrive. One of the s/h Airbus is coming from Onar Air. Monarch have the reputation of being one of the best payers and employers in aviation terms.
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