Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

From my submission to OFT:

I request that your report includes a year-on-year graph of wholesale LPG prices for the last 10 years or so. Probably showing Platts LPG CIF NWE quote.

So here's LPG (propane, NW Europe) and Brent crude 2006-2011, in $/tonne (fig. J1 p91 in the annexes, source is given as Bloomberg).

You might like to print it out and plot what you paid!



from the report:

"Suppliers told us that they do not pass on every increase and decrease in input costs, instead trying to minimise the frequency of price changes to the consumer. Data they have provided show that in both GB and NI, retail prices tend to not fluctuate as much as input costs."

Some people on this forum have commented that they have NEVER had a price decrease.

..

(thanks to bernithebiker for expert help with my submission)

afctel wrote: »

Well we have decided to go lpg in a proposed purchase of a property, well after reading this thread it scares me half to death. We have approached a supplier namely Budget Gas of Telford who are quoting me 45p per litre on a two year contract does anybody have any reviews on this company please. Thanks

Hi afctel!

Welcome to the Bulk LPG forum.

In effect you've approached Calor - who have 50% of the LPG market (which is a very good reason why the LPG 'market' doesn't function, whatever OFT may care to write in its report).

From the Budget Gas website:

Budget Gas Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Calor Gas Ltd, Company Number 303703, whose registered office is at:- Athena House, Athena Drive, Tachbrook Park, Warwick, CV34 6RL

So:
1. How long is the price (45ppl) guaranteed for?
2. What's the maximum rate of rise per 3 or 6 months?
3. What's the annual tank rental?
4. Do you know roughly how many litres per year the previous owners used?

I would not expect the price you've been quoted to decrease (see my previous post).

..

So, the OFT report is finally out. And what a diabolical piece of work it is. I think it would be safe to say people have been rusticated for better work than that!

At least in respect of LPG, even from a skip-read, it appears to be predicated on weak research, is peppered with inaccuracies and contradictions and, I think it is fair to say, is far from impartial.

I will try to post a more detailed analysis here once I have had time to read it, digest it and calm down a bit :mad:

My comments here are specifically in respect of LPG supply - maybe the work on other forms of energy supply is more thorough. I hope so, but judging by what I have read so far, I very much doubt it!

The OFT has had several months to conclude this study (full report available here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/markets-work/current/off-grid/ ) and in that time has managed to produce something of highly-questionable impartiality, with arguments that bear little or no resemblance to the realities of Off-Grid Energy supply (other than from the perspective of the suppliers) and then to draw fundamentally flawed conclusions based on statistically irrelevant research.

I have thus far only had time to skim over the key points, but here are just a few that leap out at me straight away: I could go on, but for now, I'll leave it there (I'm seething as it is :mad: :mad: :mad:), but I think we can find a strong clue tucked away in paragraph 3 of the FAQ answer number 2 (http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/markets-work/current/off-grid/off-grid-energy-qanda/): So, am I right to think that the conclusions of this report have less to do with what is happening in the market place (whether right or wrong), and are more motivated (pushed?) by a political desire to see people move away from fossil fuels to meet the Government's commitments under the Kyoto Protocol? This would certainly be in line with the anodyne and weak statements also made by Messrs Cameron and Huhne yesterday in respect of mains energy prices.

The bottom line, I suspect, is that the Government see high energy prices as a key and valuable driver for the general public to move away from fossil fuels and towards renewable solutions, irrespective of the viability and of any financial, social or medical cost to the individual.


In the mean time, it is worth bearing in mind that:

The OFT is consulting on its provisional decision to not make a market investigation reference to the Competition Commission. The consultation period ends at 5pm on 18 November. Details of the provisional decision are set out in Chapter 7 of the report.

The study can be contacted by email at [EMAIL="offgrid@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]offgrid@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] or by writing to us at:

Off-Grid Energy Market Study
Office of Fair Trading (2nd Floor)
Fleetbank House
2 - 6 Salisbury Square
London EC4Y 8JX

The cynic in me reads that to mean that the Oil and LPG suppliers have until 18th November to pat the OFT on the back, give them a cuddle and tell them they just lurrvv the report

I think any lingering hopes we may have had of some much-needed regulation in this sector have now been comprehensively shot down in flames, irrespective of the compelling evidence to support such a move. I do however think there are some specific issues that could and should be picked up on (I'm sure I will be able to suggest more when I've had time to read it fully):

• Despite the OFT's insistence that somehow it would give away too much information to their competitors (?), energy companies should be required to state the market wholesale price (not the price the supplier is paying, but something like the ANSI price) in force at the time (converted to ppl), every time a change in price is made. As this will be the same for ALL companies, it is not exactly giving anything away to the competition, but it is informing the consumer. There is simply no rational argument against this that I can see;
• Secondly, a precedent was set by Camer-huhne yesterday in respect of informing and advising the consumer of his/her rights. I therefore believe that all LPG users should likewise be sent a user-friendly summary of the key points of 2009 Competition Commission Order (it is suggested in the OFT report that this is something about which very few LPG users are aware) and a "Consumer's guide to switching". Whether this should be sent out by the Government (at the Tax-payers expense, as per yesterday's announcement on mains energy supply) or by the suppliers is a point for discussion, but it is something that I feel really must be made to happen;

As far as any further action goes (in my opinion, this report really is a disgrace), while there may be some give on certain minor specifics, I can't see much point in addressing more general concerns in respect of the OFT's fundamental conclusions. Right or wrong, their overall position seems to be fairly clear and unequivocal, so the following might prove useful as an alternative approach if you want to make more noise about this: And of course, don't forget your local constituency MP. I would suggest that, whatever your personal political allegiance, if you have a Labour MP, please do try to find time to write to them: you are likely to get a better hearing (especially if you stress the related fuel poverty aspects) as any opposition MP is always on the lookout for something juicy to get their teeth into.

You will find all the necessary contact details by following the relevant links at http://www.parliament.uk/about/contacting/mp/

I would also strongly recommend contacting the Consumers Association (Which?), especially if you are a member, at: Again, additional contact information can be found on their website at: http://www.which.co.uk/about-which/contact-us/

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Reading between the lines, I don't think Consumer Focus are overly impressed with the OFT report either:

While competition may be working in general customers are still clearly facing problems. It is welcome that the OFT has taken action on comparison sites and is looking further into issues on dodgy pricing practices and contract lock-ins. But as many customers will be worried about prices this winter they need to see action taken quickly and strong protections in place.

(which is actually all most of us saw the need for and wanted in the first place!)

Full press release at: http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/news/results-of-oft-heating-oil-and-off-gas-energy-market-investigation

They have also published a document entitled "Off-gas consumers – information on households without gas heating", which might prove of use.

Ok lil update, been offered a couple of options.

Extra - doesn't deliver to me.

Flogas - not telephoned as per advice and info on this thread.

Calor - 44.9ppl for 6 mths, guaranteed not to increase more than 3.5ppl in a 6mth period (may have been 3mth) & £100 credit.

Shell (avanti) - 42.4 ppl for 6 mths, guaranteed not to increase more than 5ppl in a 6mth period ( I don't think they will deliver to me though)

Jgas - 48ppl, spoke to the area manager, not particularly fussed about signing a contract, says most people stay due to the service and if you want to leave then you can leave. Also they say they are anticipating a price decrease as the cost of their gas has fallen but has only maintained the same price because of the value of £/$.

BMR - called twice and waiting for a call back, they don't seem to have a place to close to me, however I shall discuss any options with them. I am north of the border with postcode ML8.

So, I am tempted to go with Jgas as I know there are no real issues for my neighbours with them. Our access street is problematic and as they are an independent, they will deliver the day they say they will and allow us to make provisions for that. Last year for my neighbours that meant that we could clear the street of snow and enable them to get access to the properties they delivered too, would make sense I think - despite them being that bit more expensive. Shell left me without gas for 2 weeks last christmas, and TBH, nearly let me run out the year before. With shell now being 14.5ppl dearer than Jgas, it is still a significant saving.

I think I have convinced myself that Jgas may be the best option.

HateLpg, I'd just like to thank you once more, you obviosly spent/ spend a considerable amount of time replying to myself and others. very much appreciated.

Ali