Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Bruce_GT3 wrote: »

Where is the cheapest place to currently buy LPG from?

Which, in all fairness, is how this thread started. So here is your (hopefully more or less) definitive "Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route"

I am afraid, however, there is no simple answer. Or at least there is, in as much as the best price you can get is the best price you can negotiate (and subject to the terms of the small print).


Step 1: Find POTENTIAL suppliers

You need to identify suppliers that might be willing to supply you. Unfortunately, there is no "one-stop-shop" for this. I would suggest you need five prongs to this attack:

1. Use the uklpg suppliers search (http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/). This will give you your first group of potential suppliers, but be aware that this lists only suppliers that are uklpg members. That will cover most, but by no means all suppliers;
2. Next, have a look for a Farmer's cooperative (otherwise known as a Machinery Ring) in your area. Some will supply to domestic users, usually for a membership fee. Some, apparently do not, and I don't know if they ALL supply LPG. For England and Wales, details of ring members can be found on the "Machinery Ring Association of England and Wales (MRA)" website, at http://www.machineryrings.org.uk/ringlinks.html. For Scotland, the "Scottish Machinery Ring Association" website is http://scottishmachineryrings.co.uk/
3. Have a look at the Google Earth KML file available from http://www.lpguser.co.uk/depots.html. Look for any suppliers with a depot within typically about 30-40 miles for your address. If you are lucky, you might find another independent supplier not listed above;
4. Search the Web (Be aware that this is likely to throw up results for websites like lpg<your county name>.co.uk which claim to offer the "best price for your area", but actually offer the same price irrespective of the county!). If you find any NEW suppliers, please post back here and let us all know!
5. Add Mole Valley Farmers to the mix if you live in the South West!

Personally, I would then remove Flogas from the list, but I stress that is just my personal opinion!


Step 2: Ring Round

Not all suppliers found above will be prepared to supply you. You will need to ring each of them individually to find out whether they are prepared to supply you and if so, what price they can offer as a starting point. Remember, you need to take into account tank rental/maintenance charges which can vary wildly (and any membership charges if you are lucky enough to have a Machinery Ring that would be willing to supply you). I found it useful to put all the numbers into a spreadsheet and then calculate (based on a fixed and realistic annual consumption figure), the total that I would expect to pay each of the suppliers over a two-year period (assuming worst-case price rises and that they honour the terms of their contract!). You also need to ask them about other important factors such as:

• any price-linked escape clauses (such as Calor's 3.5ppl/three months). Not all companies have such a clause (Flogas for example, do not - just one reason why I would never sign with them);
• Whether or not their contract permits them to levy any surcharge in the event of gas prices climbing very rapidly;
• Whether they offer a fixed term introductory rate;
• What payment methods/schemes are available - some offer monthly direct debit terms, some don't;
• Whether they offer telemetry, automatic top-up or simply "call when you need" deliveries (I would also ask them what percentage of their customers in your area actually ran out of gas during the Big Freeze last winter);
• What is their policy in the event of them being unable to fulfil a delivery - are you free to get suppliers form alternative suppliers?
• If you think that you might move house during the next two years, ask them what their policy is. Calor, for example, have a quite hateful policy that you can only get out of your contract Scott-free if you persuade the new householder to sign a new two-year contract with them (mind you, I'm not sure whether that is actually a legal contract clause!);
• And probably a million and one other things that escape me as I write this - I'm sure others will remind me quickly enough

If, by his stage of the phone call, you still think that you might be able to do business with them, ask them to send out or email you a blank copy of the contract and terms and conditions that will apply.


Step 3: Read the Small Print

Wait for the contracts to arrive (and while you are waiting, pop out and buy a good magnifying glass - you'll probably need it!). Once they arrive, read the small print until your eyes bleed. Some contracts are simple and easy to understand, some are (deliberately, I believe) horribly complicated and difficult to read. Persevere. Reject any that you feel particularly uncomfortable with.


Step 4: Arrange a site visit

Call each of the companies on your (now rapidly dwindling) list and arrange for a rep to visit. It has been suggested (and generally agreed) that you are likely to get a better deal talking to and negotiating with a rep face-to-face, rather than agreeing a price with someone reading off a script at the end of a phone. The supplier should always want to undertake a site visit anyway, to ensure that your tank and its siting is acceptable and that access is OK. Certainly, the more reputable suppliers won't even consider entering into a contract without a site visit. Step 5: Sit back and have a stiff drink!

You should now have all the information you need to choose the best supplier to meet your needs. Go through everything once again, cross your fingers, make your choice and sign the contract.


Oh, and good luck - you usually only have 42 days from the notification of any price rise to sort all that out!

One final point: The new supplier may choose to buy your tank from your old supplier, or they may choose to ask your old supplier to remove their tank and then install a shiny new one. But in either situation, the outgoing supplier can NOT charge you an uplift fee (except in very specific cases where they may be able to levy a termination fee if you are still within your exclusivity period and are not changing supplier due to fault on the part of the supplier - see LittleVermin's post above for more detail).

Bruce_GT3 wrote: »

Unfortunately the uklpg only lists Calor, Flogas and Shell as supplying my postcode...

Unfortunately, Herts and Beds does seem to be in a bit of a "dead zone", supplier wise. So, as you're looking to move away from Calor, that really leaves you with only one viable alternative, Shell.

That's competition in the LPG market working at its best - ARE YOU LISTENING, MR. OFT???

If you haven't already, can I suggest that you offer your thanks to Voisin's "Moneyfesto" post (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477) and also put your experiences down in black and white and add them to the (hopefully) rather large mailbag of consumer concerns that the OFT should be receiving (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42051696&postcount=820).

There was an interesting piece on Newsnight on 21st march 2011, talking about the failure of competition in the MAINS gas and electricity markets. Walter Boltz is the Energy Regulator in Austria and has studied just what it takes to have a healthy market. He explained that in respect of the UK mains electricity and gas supply market, having just six players is perilously close to the point at which competition simply can't work. When you have just three or for major players in the market (such as we have in the LPG market), any suggestion of effective competition is simply risible. Here is his quote:

"Most economists would say if you have ten or ten plus [serious competitors in the marketplace], you have a much much better chance that competition will work properly. If you have six, you are barely above the absolute minimum and in economic theory, anything below five is very likely not to work and six is just slightly above the five threshold so it's not impossible but it would be very difficult to get a sustainable competitive market working with six companies"

I got a letter from Countrywide Farmers today increasing my LPG price from 42 ppl to 44.85 ppl. They did not actually specify the price per litre in the letter; they just said the increase was 2.85 ppl, and left me to do the maths. I can't help feeling suspicious when suppliers don't quote the actual ppl. This was Calor's practice also when I was with them.

Anyway, last time I spoke to their Customer Services they said everyone apart from those on initial offers had the same price, and if I knew of anyone getting a different price they would adjust it down.

So if anyone with Countrywide outside their initial 3 month introductory offer is getting better than 44.85ppl I would be grateful if you could let me know.

Equally, if you are paying more than 44.85ppl and want to quote me to get your price down I'll be happy to oblige.

Den2Mark wrote: »

I got a letter from Countrywide Farmers today increasing my LPG price from 42 ppl to 44.85 ppl. They did not actually specify the price per litre in the letter; they just said the increase was 2.85 ppl, and left me to do the maths. I can't help feeling suspicious when suppliers don't quote the actual ppl. This was Calor's practice also when I was with them.

Anyway, last time I spoke to their Customer Services they said everyone apart from those on initial offers had the same price, and if I knew of anyone getting a different price they would adjust it down.

So if anyone with Countrywide outside their initial 3 month introductory offer is getting better than 44.85ppl I would be grateful if you could let me know.

Equally, if you are paying more than 44.85ppl and want to quote me to get your price down I'll be happy to oblige.

You can post a comment on CWF's 'wall' on Facebook! Here's the link: http://www.facebook.com/cwfonline

661 people 'like' CWF ... so maybe quite a few will be getting LPG from them.

It'll be good to see how their Customer Services people handle that! It could be interesting!

BTW There seems to be a sort of Flogas page - and "5 people like this" (but I didn't see GrandadRob's name there. Maybe he was using an alias?).

frankie wrote: »

Just contacted Calor re the price increase and the contract conditions. Got the expected reply saying they are not in breach of their contract as I am allowed to opt out if the increase is more than 3.5ppl.

Did point out that the contract is really unfair as they are effectively forcing me to break it!

No joy as expected though.

Just had to challenge them as a matter of principle. I am in fact getting as good a deal from them as I think I can. I will however use this instance to inform the OFT as to this practice of worthless contracts.

May I urge any other Calor users to first challenge the increase with Calor and then report it to the OFT after Calor has explained that you can like it or leave!

Doesn't this mean you can go elsewhere? Does your contract say if they raise the price above a certain amount you can move on and not be breaking your side of the contract? If so have you had a look around for a better deal?