Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

jimmyboy1980 · 22 September 2010 at 12:25PM

Just a further note - and one not to be taken as a light reminder, but the other REAL attraction I found with the likes of Extra Fuel is the ability to save more than just a couple of pence per litre on LPG. the graph I was sent on the pricing for May and June 09 showed a price of 26ppl - If bought at the right time of year a greater saving can be made. Of course this is wholely dependant on market fluctuations but a serious consideration none the less. . .

jickis31 · 25 September 2010 at 4:33AM

Hey there,

I'm following you guys.:beer:

regards,
jickis31

mullercow · 25 September 2010 at 10:48PM

flogas have toaday sent me a letter increasing the price of our gas by 6p per litre are they allowed to do this I am now paying 68p per litre and need advice on best way forward, contract runs out in January. It will be another cold winter for us as cant afford to put heating on.

LittleVermin · 26 September 2010 at 11:47AM

mullercow wrote: »

flogas have toaday sent me a letter increasing the price of our gas by 6p per litre are they allowed to do this I am now paying 68p per litre and need advice on best way forward, contract runs out in January. It will be another cold winter for us as cant afford to put heating on.

Welcome to the Bulk LPG thread! Another LPG horror story - this time from Flogas.

Yes, they can charge you what they like unless there's a cap or a maximum rate of price rise in your contract - and I believe Flogas do not put such restrictions on themselves in their contracts. [So something to get into your next supplier's contract]. But do read the small print in case there's a relevant clause.

I assume the contract running out in January had a life of 2 years? If it was longer then it is probably not enforceable and you can switch now without cost (see OFT FAQs -http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/monopolies/lpg-faqs.pdf).

Cold winter? What are your alternatives? Electric heating of some rooms only? There were posts fairly recently (?August) giving price comparisons for a kilowatt hour of heat from different 'fuels' (oil, gas, electricity,..) - you need to put in the prices you pay for electricity and LPG. Full price electricity is more expensive than 'normal' price LPG. [Take care - some of the earlier posts had errors which other posters corrected].

Go to Trading Standards. I don't know what they can or will do but they may have suggestions.

Find who else will supply you (when/if you change suppliers). Info from http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/ and put in your postcode. You should be able to get prices over the phone (again, see Competition Commission FAQs).

Extra Fuel's price this month (September 2010) is 39.96ppl so they are making money selling LPG at that price.

Tell Flogas you are thinking of getting a new supplier when your contract runs out? And yes, maybe come off auto-fill and tell them in writing you will tell them when you want a top up? Again, check your contract. (There's a new thread in Gas and Electricity where - if I remember correctly - Flogas filled a tank just before a contract ended, despite being told not to, and now are threatening legal proceedings http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=36736621&highlight=flogas+back#post36736621 ).

And of course you can talk/write/etc to MPs/journalists ..

I hope this helps a little - for both you and cmwb in Cumbria.

LittleVermin · 26 September 2010 at 4:12PM

The wholesale (spot) prices for LPG, whether from Platts or other sources, seem only to be available on subscription*. Possibly Platts's PCA0428 - for Northern Europe - would be most relevant.

But the Isle Of Man's Office of Fair Trading produced a report 'Further Investigation into Gas Prices in the Isle of Man' whose results got published by the Manx govt as GR:009/08 and is free on-line. p13 shows that about 31% of the price of LPG is the cost of the material to the supplier, 62% is 'margin and other costs'. Obviously IoM is a special case with extra shipping costs, etc. And wholesalers do not buy their LPG each month, etc, etc.

BUT if around 30% of the retail price is the wholesale price AND Extra Fuel's posted price in September is 39.96ppl AND Calor, BP and Shell have been offering contracts in August and September at 37-39ppl guaranteed for x months (with maximum rate of price rises) [see other posts] THEN maybe the wholesale price is between 10-12. So if the price has risen recently by (e.g.) 30% [as stated by Flogas, I'm told] the wholesale price will have risen 3.0 - 3.6ppl.

This is the best I can do: probably anyone in the industry reading this will be laughing out loud (please enjoy your Sunday afternoon!).

Maybe someone else has more knowledge - or is an economist (I'm not!).

* Correction - apologies - you can sign up free for Platts, if you qualify. Please see http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=36962576&postcount=192

scribbler101 · 26 September 2010 at 7:28PM

Hi to all.

IIUC from the above, the current "real market" price for bulk LPG is around 38p/ltr

We buy it in 47kg bottles - current price £46, which at 1.95ltr/kg or 510kg/m^3 comes to 50.2p/kg.

I would love to know what prices others pay for 47kg, so if you know please tell - and it might be intersting to ask your supplier?

I looked at a bulk tank some time ago. IIRC it involved me in outgoings to get the tank, but then I got a concessionary price. But once that was over the standard price for the gas was not attractive enough for the hassle.

blueboy1977 · 27 September 2010 at 4:58PM

Hi, just thought i'd let you know some up to date prices i've received today.
I'm currently with flogas, and am paying 51.68 ppl and 17.44pd tank rental. I am not in a contract at the moment, and they offered me 42ppl fixed for 6 months if I sign a two year contract.

Calor have just quoted me 39ppl and 16.9 tank rental with a £50 credit now, and £50 in a years time.

GrandadRob · 27 September 2010 at 6:54PM

Hi Guys.
Just returned here after some time and been reading about the latest places to get good priced LPG. Flogas wrote to me today informing me of a 6p hike making it....63.78 ppl :mad::mad::mad:

What is the latest thinking about where to switch to. Found out today that my contract ends next month, and I have frozen deliveries.

Thanks
Rob.

LittleVermin · 27 September 2010 at 8:50PM

GrandadRob wrote: »

Hi Guys.
<snip>
Found out today that my contract ends next month, and I have frozen deliveries.

Thanks
Rob.

Hi Rob,

I don't know who would supply you in north Herefordshire (I looked up your posts of 2 years ago!) but switching should take a maximum of 28 days from when your current supplier is informed.

Check http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/monopolies/lpg-faqs.pdf

I imagine any small print in your current contract can be ignored when the contract ends.

When I switched I sent off the completed downloaded form to my new suppliers on 20 May, they contacted my old supplier and I got a delivery from the new supplier on 9th June (my tank was at about 2%), and later received the notice that the tank had been transferred to them on 15 June.

Good luck with getting new quotes, and getting the potential suppliers to match or better each other.

If you want to get a bit more off, before you get quotes, pm anyone who has signed up to a good deal recently and get them to 'introduce' you! Your favourite - Flogas - gives £75 to the person who recommends them when the new person gets their first bill (with £75 taken off too). £75 seems to be the biggest 'bribe' for any supplier. I wonder why.

Please post what offers you get (price, maximum rate of rise, rent per day, etc).

"frozen deliveries" - don't freeze!
(I'd put "frozen deliveries" in a signed and dated letter to Flogas - and keep a copy - in case they try to pull a fast one - see
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=36680339&postcount=1)

LPG_customer · 28 September 2010 at 9:37PM

I moved into a brand new home supplied by a shared LPG tank (a so called 'metered estate'). Alas the selected supplier for my LPG was Flogas!

Flogas sent the new homeowners a Supply Agreement. No-one realised that this was in fact a 2 year exclusive contract! There was no paperwork or covering letter to explain. Many people thought the Agreements were an initial meter reading and genuinely didnt realise what they'd signed. By time I had noticed the small print on the back it was too late! So now, because some of my neighbours had signed we are ALL locked in until 2012. Then of course the price was increased to 45p/litre.

Flogas were very unhelpful and refused to even speak to us. To cut a long story short, if something like this has happened to you, I recommend you do the following:

1. Agree to get someone on your metered estate to take the lead. Then there is one point of contact and let everyone know what is happening. You can also compare pricing. The quicker you act as one the better and we managed to stop neighbours moving in later signing. I found that it makes no difference if you dont sign, LPG suppliers only need one property to sign to lock you all in for 2 years anyway!
2. Contact Trading Standards for advice. They said that under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Flogas should have made their terms clear to customers and the fact they didnt is unfair.
3. Complain to the MD of Flogas stating they have breached this law. This led to an offer of a price reduction to 38p/litre fixed for 6 months but only if we signed another 2 year contract. I tried to ask for a reduced 18 month term as a compromise but they refused.
4. Maybe this one isnt for everyone... but it helps to threaten to expose their poor practices in the media. Companies (yes even Flogas) do not like and fear bad press. As I work within the Communications industry I wrote a press release and sent it to them saying that I would issue it if they didnt reduce the contract term to 18 months. They finally agreed and now we have a new short term contract.

This forum has really helped me learn about LPG and I hope this might be of help to someone too. My mistake was to try to be nice - IT DOESNT WORK WITH FLOGAS!!!

Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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