Mobiles.co.uk cashback problems

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 10:46AM

OneADay wrote: »

So what percentage do get paid on time and what percentage do not?
At least we can then judge how good or bad the situation is.

Even MJ has accepted that we confirmed receipt of his claim immediately and then confirmed a cheque is on the way 21 days after he posted his claim (it may have been less?).

The discussion is around the time it takes for a cheque to arrive after this, which (a) I'm working to improve as hard as I can and (b) is communicated clearly on the site.

Thanks,

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 10:50AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

When the rep answers my questions without quacking I will be more impressed than people regarding late payment as not very important. I am perfectly entitled to anonymity on here and people who think it's ok for the offical rep to duck my questions yet expect me to disclose detailed personal information or do their own research for them will wait for a very long time. I care not if they don't believe me or choose to attack me. I am solely interested in the clear truth about the t&c which has STILL not be answered and never will be - least of all by the rep.

MJ,

Please list all your questions you feel are unanswered and I will endavour to respond. I'm not sure which questions you're referring to.

I do not expect you to disclose detailed personal information etc etc so your paragraph above is a bit unfair, I feel.

As we've discussed already, you have your issues with CPW (understandably) but I am here to help people who have problems with Mobiles.co.uk.

Regards,

mobilejunkie · 17 August 2009 at 10:55AM

I wasn't referring to you with regard to the personal details question.

Let's start with my first question. Do you accept that the t&c (under the "click here" section you describe as FAQ ARE) the t&c at the point of sale? I point out that they are also reached by the "t&c" where you are told they are the cashback t&c at the date ordered and where there are NO t&c for cashback other than the referral?

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 11:06AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

It can't be argued both ways - unless you're a cpw rep trying to pretend the t&c aren't the t&c or someone who actually believes such nonesense. The deal on the website is an invitation to treat; your application is an offer and the t&c are the ones on there at the time - the ones above! They accept your offer and are therefore bound by those t&c - whatever rubbish they may come out with afterwards.

Hi MJ,

I think the fundamental problem here is that you are understandably concerned about changes to Terms and Conditions relating to cashback, and see any change or clarification as an attempt to reduce successful cashback claims.

This is not the case. we have a very simple set of rules under which a claim can be denied (in the section helpfully called "Reasons why Cashback will Not Be Paid").

Similarly there's a section telling you how to claim, and a section advising you what happens next (cheque raised, etc).

You're approaching this as a Contract Lawyer and trying to extract meaning from every last comma when actually you should be looking at it as a customer - it's a guide to claiming cashback. Whether or not we have discreet "Terms and Conditions" or to what extent these are enforceable, interpretations of Sale of Goods act etc etc is a matter for a Small Claims Court, and as we have never ended up in one both you and I are simply giving our interpretations.

I continue to maintain (because it's the truth) that I know better than you how we operate, the culture and mindset of the company, the logistics of processing claims etc etc and I also recognise that you are going to warn people about cashback (I would too - which is why we offer up to 7 alternative gifts per handset/tariff combo).

I could have sent a Customer Services guy or a paid-for Online Reputation Management company here to firefight, propagandize and react but I didn't, I came here to improve our company (or its perception) and to help people with issues relating to the company (because no company is perfect. Except maybe BA). We can agree to disagree but we shouldn't turn the fact that I am here and willing to argue into an ongoing Battle Royale, MJ vs CPW.

Give me advice on helping, on what to do, but I'm not sure what your objective is otherwise? That one day I'll suddenly acknowledge that you were right all along, and I'm a sneaky mouthpiece for a sneaky company here with ulterior motives? Surely the best way to do what you are accusing us of is to simply not come here?

Thanks for your comments,
Ben

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 11:13AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Hardly. There is virtually zero negative feedback during the last two years on Phones4U and mobiles Direct as far as their internet cashback schemes and service is concerned. There are volumes of negative feedback on both cpw shops (e.g. their "repair" service) AND their internet dealerships. That is a massive difference!

But almost none on Mobiles.co.uk, and most of what there is I have coaxed out of the woodwork by merely being here and helping. I've replied to over 150 different people via PMs since I joined, by the way.

I am not suggesting people avoid using them - but I most certainly think they should definitely NOT trust them and make sure they cover themselves fully so that they are in a position to sue if necessary.

I agree entirely, but would also point out that statistically we've sold literally hundreds of thousands of cashback deals over the years and have 2 CCJs against us, neither relating to cashback. So prepare to sue if you want to, but accept that it's overkill.

I have no way of knowing how many people have actualled sued any cpw company; I do know that one of my claims with this dealer wasn't paid as it should have been and I would have sued had the company not coughed up. I have also decided not to sue on another matter - although I may do just that later when something else which is likely to happen occurs.

I do not mean to be cryptic, but I absolutely refuse to give details which would be detrimental to my own interests - just as I know details of others on here but would not announce them on these threads.

You're not being cyptic, you're setting us up to fail, ignoring my repeated offers to help you with whatever issues you have and then declaring martyrdom. You can't complain about needing to sue everyone and then blaming others when it's you who takes it that far?

Come to think of it, how would a judge at this future hearing look upon this?

Regards,

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 11:28AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Do you accept that the t&c (under the "click here" section you describe as FAQ ARE) the t&c at the point of sale?

Firstly, as intimated elsewhere, our Cashback section is undergoing a rewrite (which will not change the process or rules, except to the customer's advantage in 2 specific ways). I'll admit that it's slightly jumbled currently, in terms of the number of pages and the names given to them.

Having said that, we offer customers rebates on their line rental provided they submit claims in line with 5 or 6 rules, easily accessible on our site as they make their purchase (linked to from the very place where they select the redemption deal in fact).

These 5 or 6 rules form the "Terms and Conditions" you refer to. Simply, claim on time, send the right bill, make sure you send the information we need (generally the first 2 or 3 pages of the bill). That's it.

You are going to say that I'm amending the T&Cs as I go along, I'm going to reply that adding a warning about the time taken (after we confirm we're paying out within the 28 days, I'd stress) is not varying the T&Cs. There is no contractual obligation for us to ensure you have the money in your hands within a certain timeframe, other than what would be deemed "reasonable" by a court. 28 days + standard 2nd class delivery time + 14 days to get the cheque authorised, printed and put in the post is reasonable, but not ideal. As I've said elsewhere,
because it's not ideal I'm making it faster.

Regards,

mobilejunkie · 17 August 2009 at 11:34AM

So you still don't accept that t&c are t&c. I have been to court a few times and wouldn't have any difficulty persuading a judge that your "t&c" are just that. This IS a contract and like it or not contract law applies in its entirety! If you can't even agree that but still try to muddy the waters about what is and what is not a t&c then as far as I'm concerned you are to be treated with increaded caution and scepticism. It is a clear question and one you avoid answering.

If you really have helped 150 people on here then that's 150 angry customers you weren't dealing with properly as a company in the first place - or they wouldn't need to come on here - and an indication of just how many others there must be who don't find their way onto this site.

How you can claim that there is "almost" no negative feedback on your company on his site alone is amazing!

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 11:42AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

So you still don't accept that t&c are t&c. I have been to court a few times and wouldn't have any difficulty persuading a judge that your "t&c" are just that. If you can't even agree that but still try to muddy the waters about what is and what is not a t&c then as far as I'm concerned you are to be treated with increaded caution and scepticism. It is a clear question and one you avoid answering.

I just answered it?

Help me out here? What's your point? What is it you're trying to demonstrate? That we agree to get money into your hands within 28 days of receiving the claim?

Why would we be in front of a judge? Because the cheque didn't arrive for 58 days (worst case) after we received your claim? The judge would say, "so the claim was validated and confirmed within 30 days and then the cheque arrived within 4 weeks of this? Get out of my court".

Let's say that he decided that we had breached some sort of law, what would he do? Order we pay commercial interest on the amount for the difference between a "reasonable" time and the 28 days (58-30)? On the largest possible amount this equates to about 56p, by my calculations. :eek:

Regards,

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative · 17 August 2009 at 11:47AM

mobilejunkie wrote: »

If you really have helped 150 people on here then that's 150 angry customers you weren't dealing with properly as a company in the first place - or they wouldn't need to come on here - and an indication of just how many others there must be who don't find their way onto this site.

How you can claim that there is "almost" no negative feedback on your company on his site alone is amazing!

Not angry, for the most part confused or curious.

They'd also contacted us through the normal routes, in most cases, and just wanted me to follow up on this.

This site is entirely built around the idea of negative feedback and "revenge", so of course there's negative feedback. But in context, it's a tiny amount.

I also don't think I'd be out of line to point out that some of time it's the customer's fault and they want us to help them out/bend the rules/ignore the laws of space and time/lose massive amounts of money through no fault of our own. Maybe not polite to point this out but needs saying in this context.

Regards,

Quentin · 17 August 2009 at 11:52AM

Mobiles.co.uk_company_representative wrote: »

Let's say that he decided that we had breached some sort of law, what would he do? Order we pay commercial interest on the amount for the difference between a "reasonable" time and the 28 days (58-30)? On the largest possible amount this equates to about 56p, by my calculations.

If the judge finds in favour of the claimant, then the defendant has to pay the claim in full.

This could include the amount claimed/court fees/interest from the date the money was due/claimants travel expenses to court/claimants loss of earnings. (Less any amount paid between the issue of the summons and the judgement)

As far as interest is concerned, your 56p depends on the amount being claimed. In fact judges have agreed that failure by CPW companies to pay on time is a fundamental breach of the contract, and thus the amount involved means the interest due is a lot more than 56p!

Mobiles.co.uk cashback problems

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