Warm Front - Lets Make Them Accountable

thehaughtyculturalist · 19 January 2008 at 6:59PM

I'd like to hear from anyone who's had trouble with 'Warm Front' themselves, or one of their contractors (heating installers or gas supply installers).

I had my grant approved in October 2006 and I'm still waiting. I have had no end of trouble with Warm Front and have finally given up, I wish I'd never bothered, and although I know of happy satisfied customers, I know I am not alone in my despair.

I have found them unhelpful and unaccountable, at no point have they ever held their hands up and taken any responsibility for delays and mess ups.

By 31st August 2007 there was still no sign of a gas supply, I phoned and they said "oh, one's just been ordered today"...yeah right! I asked how long it would take to get it installed and they didn't know as they were using a new supplier.

Eventually I got an appointment for the end of October (12 months so far). they came, did half the job, and went...saying they'd be back in 2 weeks. Six weeks went by, I rang Warm Front and they said 'someone from SGN will call to make an appointment'. I said that wasn't good enough and I wanted the job finished as I couldn't get heating until I has gas. SGN said they could come back on 9th January 2008! I explained that I found that unacceptable as it was not a new job but and existing job that was incomplete. They were meant to do the job in a day, they didn't, so they should prioritise finishing it.

I contacted the ombudsman via their website and suddenly I had a cancellation in December - by this time too late to get heating before Christmas. This was followed by 18 minutes of groveling from one of the managers at SGN.

I called Iguana for an appointment and was told 'we are not giving out appointments until January'. I explained I'd been waiting for 14 months, and that we are cold, its effecting my health, and we have no heating other than a rayburn that hasn't been serviced in over 13 yrs and costs too much to run anyway. I was given an appointment for the 14th January (Monday just gone). I thought 'better late than never'.

The gas supply was finally completed mid December. I called a gas supplier and got a meter fitted in record time, I thought things were looking up.

I called Iguana on Friday to check they were ok to do the job if the landlords electricians were here and they said yes no problem.

Monday came, no Iguana. I called Warmfront and they said they'd had to cancel as 'the parts had expired'. I was beside myself. It seems they have to reorder the parts (its not like they didn't know they needed them months in advance) then someone will call to make another appointment. I said I don't want Iguana in the house as they had let me down so badly and it was unacceptable behavior, and was informed if I chose to do that then I'd go to the back of a 6 month queue.

I was very upset, and then I rang my MP to see if there is anything he can do. His secretary was very understanding and concerned but I have heard nothing yet.

Now I have given up. I'm not prepared to be treated like apiece of dirt just because I happen to be in a personal situation that makes me eligible for a grant. And neither should anyone else!

My dad, who is retired and disabled, was canceled on by BlueFlag three times (he lives in Lancashire - I'm in East Sussex). It seems this is how it is.

What I'd like to see is a change in legislation to make Warm Front and the contractors accountable. They should
1. give a breakdown of what the grant is being spent on, particularly when they are asking tenants/homeowners to contribute above and beyond the grant. I was asked for an extra £680 but have no idea how much of the £2,700 was spent on what and so no idea why they need an extra £680 or what for
2. be accountable at all stages
3. be penalised by the government for missing deadline's / letting people down at short notice (particularly on the day of fitting)
4. pay compensation to customers who have been canceled on and messed around (taken time off work, lifted carpets etc)

I'll be writing a long letter to my MP about what happened to me and to my father, but I'd like to hear other peoples stories too to build a strong case for change either anonymously or otherwise. I also urge anyone who has had similar difficulites to write to their own MP, and to complain in writing to Warm Front and the contractors involved. Its a great scheme in theory but in the process its causing a lot of people a lot of extras stress, anxiety and misery.

trisontana · 19 January 2008 at 8:05PM

There was a feature about Warm Front an this Thursday's You and Yours

You can hear it here (real player required) :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/listenagain/thursday.shtml

Elmer_Dudd · 20 January 2008 at 2:18AM

This firm can be an absolute shambles. A elderly relative was eligible for the scheme and used them to install boiler and radiators and had nothing but endless and unecessary grief. They sub contract out to some questionable companies who do not turn up on time, do not do what was asked, leave the job half finished, are downright rude, bad workmanship and were obviously under skilled and totally dismissive of the clients wishes and concerns and most importantly for them... make sure they charge top whack to the taxpayer through this scheme for everything they do.
All in all a licence to print cash for the firms that are 'employed' and on occasions a zero service to the elderly and desperate who try and use them.
This is the trouble when you get quango's trying to run things!!
They had to complain and complain before Iguana took any responsibility for their actions (or lack of them!)
Hopeless Bunch!!
Elmer:cool:

carolinep_3 · 22 January 2008 at 3:30PM

I too have recently experienced problems with Warm Front with the installation of a Solid Fuel fire for my Elderly father. The fire did not work after installation and the installers were 'at a loss' as to why it didn;t work. After many weeks Parkray requested an independant report to be carried out to see exactly what the problem was because the installers were indicating it was a fault with the fire. The report was astonishing at the level of incompetance over the installation, no wonder the fire didn't work. After many complaints (by ourselves, and yes you are correct Warm Front are hopeless) the installers agreed to fit a new fire. This was done by another of their plumbers at my request as I did not want the installer stepping foot on my father's premises again after the standard of work and because he dumped a bucket load of concrete waste in his garden! ) This was installed 30th November, leaving a pensioner without any heat since November. The 2nd fire worked fine after installation BUT we at present are having difficulty obtaining the certificate of compliance required for the installation. I checked with Hetas who confirmed that the company are not registered. Upon checking this with the installers I was told that was correct the company were not but the two installers who did the job were registered. Not according to Hetas they weren't (who are also contacting Warm Front). Warm Front were aware that they were possibly not registered to do the job under the building regulations as it was in the report by the independant heating specialist that they also received a copy of. A complaint has now been lodged with Warm Front who say they are launching an investigation. My email add is [EMAIL="caroline1362@hotmail.co.uk"]caroline1362@hotmail.co.uk[/EMAIL] should you want to contact me direct.

Poppycat · 22 January 2008 at 3:39PM

I am still waiting for them to finish the job of putting some stuff in the rads from last July which they been paid for by the tax payer

Everytime I ring the company I get the brush off, they coming next week, or we arent in the area at mo but will come soon. I dont mind waiting but since July they are taking the Mick.

I only found out it hadn't been done on a spot check in August and since then I get these excuses. TIC is the company who is doing the work for warmfront

csarina · 24 January 2008 at 3:30AM

A friend had central heating installed by warmfront, they brought the pipes for a rad so close to the door the door cannot be closed, this was earlier this month, someone was due to come and re-route them, guess what, hey did not turn up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

trisontana · 24 January 2008 at 8:17AM

There is a critical feature about Warm Front in this week's Private Eye. It's on page 27, under the headline "Frozen In Time"

thehaughtyculturalist · 25 January 2008 at 11:35AM

trisontana wrote: »

There is a critical feature about Warm Front in this week's Private Eye. It's on page 27, under the headline "Frozen In Time"

Thanks, I'll pick up a copy today. Here's what was said online:

More trouble for the government-funded Warm Front scheme that is supposed to subsidise modern, efficient home heating for vulnerable people. After the last Eye reported the case of Mary and George Anastasiadis, who waited more than six months for their heating because of an ‘unforseen shortage of engineers’, numerous readers have been in touch about long delays in getting heating installed or replaced by approved agents of EAGA, the company that runs Warm Front for Defra. Environment Minister Phil Woolas admitted that a number of other MPs had raised their constituents’ problems with Warm Front with him. In an adjournment debate MPs spoke out about the absurdity of the scheme forcing people to wait months for EAGA’s contractors when the work could be done more cheaply and promptly by a local installer…
For the full story, buy the latest edition of Private Eye – in shops now

thehaughtyculturalist · 25 January 2008 at 11:56AM

trisontana wrote: »

There was a feature about Warm Front an this Thursday's You and Yours

You can hear it here (real player required) :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/listenagain/thursday.shtml

That's good, lots of good quotes to use, I'll email them for a transcript. Thanks!

thehaughtyculturalist · 26 January 2008 at 12:44AM

I'm so please to hear you had a good experience margaretclare. It is a good scheme when it works.

I listened to the Radio 4 program and urge everyone else to do so too, it was very helpful. Apparently 'Phil Woolas' of DEFRA reads EVERY complaint himself, and says he gets very few!

Even he knows most people will not sit down and write a letter of complaint however wronged they may feel, for many different reasons; time, energy, eye site, arthritis, many reasons - but also because (like my Dad, who had to ring Warm Front almost every day for about 6 months, involve his MP etc) ...by the time the job is finally done you've had enough stress and aggravation, you don't have the energy or inclination to fight any more, you just want to put it behind you, get on with your life, forget about it.

If you are one of those people, please do not forget about it, write to your MP, ask him to forward a copy to Phil Woolas MP who 'reads them all personally'. If everyone who complained to their friends and family about Warm Front complained to him instead, sooner or later he'd have to take notice.

According to the Radio 4 program, Oliver Letwin MP (West Dorset) is seeking an 'adjournment debate' in the House of Commons which means the minister would be forced to go to the H of C and 'answer officials'. To do this they'd have to do their research and prepare a briefing - they'd have to have the facts and have to know what is really going on - so lets get writing those letters!

thehaughtyculturalist · 30 January 2008 at 12:50PM

I wrote to Oliver Letwin, by the blanket response received from his secretary, and the fact she called me 'Mr' when I'm a 'Ms', I can conclude he obviously didn't read it.

The letter is below for anyone who is interested:

Hello Oliver,

As I live in Brighton I'm not writing to you as my MP, but more as an interested party.

I listened with interest to your radio broadcast on Channel 4 regarding warm front. Presumably it was edited but I think you covered most of the issues such as the long wait between getting the grant and getting the heating, lack of locally available contractors, the high prices charged for boilers (and other parts - I was told by Iguana it would cost about £400 if I wanted an extra radiator fitting above and beyond the five allowed by the grant) - and most importantly the lack of accountability.

You may be interested in reading a thread I started on the 'moneysaving expert forum', by coincidence posted the same day your interview was broadcast, entitle 'Warm Front - Lets Make Them Accountable': http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=693277

My MP, David Lepper, is aware of my situation, though he doesn't know the details. I'll be sending him a full statement - plus details of the radio 4 program, a copy of the article in Private Eye (I haven't seen that yet), and a print out of the forum thread mentioned above - and asking him to pass it onto Phil Woolas MP.

I have actually given up chasing Warm Front, or Iguana (both schemes are managed through faceless call centres), I no longer care whether they give me heating or not, what I do care about is the waste of public money, the incompetence and mismanagement, and the inaccountability. Something has to be done.

Phil Woolas kept referring to warm front clients as 'the most vulnerable members of society', so why then is it acceptable to treat them so badly? My dad, who is retired and disable, has heart problems and high blood pressure, was on the phone continually chasing and complaining trying to get the job done. How is that good for a ‘vulnerable person’?

The fact that no one is accountable when things goes wrong means there are no 'consequences'. Contractors, warm front, in fact anyone involved, seem to be able to get away with anything, including cancelling the installation on the same day they are expected to start the job (as with me), putting people to the back of the 6 months queue if they are unable to accept an appointment offered due to prior commitments (as with my dad), not even ordering a gas supply until you ring to find out why you still don’t have one (me again)...I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

Whilst addressing the physical health issues of inadequate heating, the current system is exasperating mental heath, stress and anxiety issues. I already mentioned my dad, but I have a personal example too: The gas installers installed half my supply and went away, saying they'd be back within 2 weeks. After six weeks I called Warm Front who said ‘SGN will call you’. I said that wasn’t good enough and asked for their direct number. They were wery unhelpful and said they couldn’t give me anything earlier than 9th January (the job was started and half completed on 23rd October). I said this was unacceptable but they were not interested. I asked Jenny Innes from the environmental health dept at 'Brighton & Hove Council' to call them, and I complained to the ombudsman too. I got a cancellation for early December. When they did come back to finish the job they couldn’t do it because there were cars parked in the road. By this time I was tearing my hair out. I suggested it might have been wise to have put out cones the night before?? They hung around for a few hours making phone calls etc and eventually went saying they’d be back the following day. I called the ‘direct number’ I’d been given by the manager of SGN (after the Ombudsmen had been on to them) and no one answered. I was left with the job of putting the cones out myself, which I did but - and this is the point I’m trying to make - by this point I was so stressed by the whole situation, and so worried that if someone moved a cone and parked their car anyway that the job would be put back again (lots of people park and car share from my road), that I barely slept, then I was up at 5.20am watching the road every time I heard a car slow down in case they tried to park. I was a wreck by the time the installers arrived. That is not my usual behaviour.

Iguana canceled on the morning of the installation - 14th January 2008. I haven’t heard anything since. Not an appointment, not a courtesy call, not an apology, nothing. This isn’t about me though, if this is how I’ve been treated, how my dad has been treated, and how your constituents have been treated, then they’re getting away with it on a huge scale.

So I hope you get your ‘Adjournment Debate’, and I hope things get better. I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone. Its not worth the stress, hassle, upset, phone bill, down time…..and so on.

One last thing, Phil Woolas’s attitude in the interview seemed to border on ‘put up and shut up’ ie ‘they should be grateful’. I take exception to his attitude. Whilst I appreciate that before the scheme existed many people who have benefited would still be struggling to heat their homes, the fact that a persons circumstances are such that they qualify for the grant is no reason to treat them like an underclass. When I qualified for the grant I was a lone parent and studying at college.

I appreciate the grant, I do not appreciate having to get down on all fours and grovel for it. I don’t think grant beneficiaries should have to ‘put up, shut up, and be grateful’. If I was a private customer I WOULD NOT have been treated the way I have been, had I been a private customer I’d have had options, choices – I’d have been treated with ‘respect’, or I’d have gone elsewhere.
Bring in penalties, bring in consequences, make them accountable!

Thank you for your time,

Warm Front - Lets Make Them Accountable

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