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  • FIRST POST
    • Johnnyboywdz
    • By Johnnyboywdz 10th Jul 18, 9:57 AM
    • 19Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Johnnyboywdz
    Car released from garage without authority
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 9:57 AM
    Car released from garage without authority 10th Jul 18 at 9:57 AM
    Good morning - New on here, and my first thread


    I have a Landrover Discovery 4, 2012 54k miles. Broke down in France. Got in touch with English transport guy via a web site in France. He agreed to transport to Landrover dealer in UK for xx amount - nothing signed, and stayed at our place for few days..got on well


    Delivered car to main dealer. It has been there for 10 weeks while I have been wrangling with Landrover over warranties..contribuitions etc... Dealer had no problem with holding vehicle there for me


    Meanwhile, in France wrote off my other car when lorry pulled across me on motorway forcing me into barriers, and cleared off. Anyway, was a write off, got paid out, and told they would collect it.


    8 weeks later no collection. Phoned insurance for update. Told they had to arrange for it to come back to UK. At the time the transport guy who recovered my Landrover to UK was staying for few days as was collecting cars near us. He had a spare place on his transporter, so I suggested to insurance that maybe he could recover it back to UK. They called him and all arranged and off he went, after we had agreed that he would use their payment to cover my cost...so we were quits




    Something didn't ring right with this transport guy..gut feeling, so 2 weeks ago I phoned Landrover dealer and instructed them to only deal with myself, and specifically not to deal with the transport guy, or his company


    Imagine my shock, when I phoned the Landrover dealer yesterday to inform them that I had arranged for a friend to collect my car from them, and was informed that someone had collected it last week!!


    I asked who had signed for it, and they told me it was the guy from the transport company, who I had specifically told them not to deal with, and they had not even contacted me for authorisation! No receipt signed or anything. They said “well he had the correct paperwork” which was a photo of the front page of the log book I had sent him for when he initially transported it to UK


    Told them that they were liable and that it was down to them to recover my car. They would check with the manager, who was off yesterday, and come back to me – No call back so far




    So….as far as I am concerned, the dealer is liable, due to negligence, on the following points;


    • They released the vehicle without my authorisation, and without any correct paperwork
    • I specifically informed them not to deal with anyone except myself, and in particular not the transport guy or his company – (I have voice recording of the conversation)


    I have logged this with my local police station, and have a crime reference number, as my vehicle has been stolen, taken without my permission, but they think it might be a civil matter??? They are forwarding the report to the county where the vehicle was taken from, and they will decide if civil case or not


    Am correct in my thinking, and how should I progress ?


    Thanks in advance
Page 2
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Jul 18, 10:46 PM
    • 19,101 Posts
    • 17,509 Thanks
    AdrianC
    By the sounds of it, he has taken it without your consent, but that is different to stealing it.
    Originally posted by Nobbie1967
    It is - but Taking Without the Owner's Consent (TWOC) is a distinct offence, one that doesn't require proving the intent to permanently deprive.



    If this is truly a straightforward theft, then most, if not all insurance companys would require you to report it to them irrespective of whether you make a claim.
    <nods> And the police, obviously.
    • Muscle750
    • By Muscle750 10th Jul 18, 10:59 PM
    • 1,047 Posts
    • 320 Thanks
    Muscle750
    this story sounds like a elaborate insurance fraud from where im sat
    • photome
    • By photome 11th Jul 18, 6:53 AM
    • 13,605 Posts
    • 9,101 Thanks
    photome
    another wind up
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 11th Jul 18, 7:23 AM
    • 20,608 Posts
    • 12,767 Thanks
    dacouch
    this story sounds like a elaborate insurance fraud from where im sat
    Originally posted by Muscle750
    Car Insurance generally excludes theft where there is an element of deception involved
    • Johnnyboywdz
    • By Johnnyboywdz 11th Jul 18, 8:08 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Johnnyboywdz
    I did not instruct him to take it - I actually informed the dealer to only deal with myself, and specifically not the transport company concerned
    • Johnnyboywdz
    • By Johnnyboywdz 11th Jul 18, 8:11 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Johnnyboywdz
    It is - but Taking Without the Owner's Consent (TWOC) is a distinct offence, one that doesn't require proving the intent to permanently deprive.



    <nods> And the police, obviously.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    I have informed the police. They are not sure if civil or criminal ?? Surely criminal, as it has been taken without my consent, and maybe a touch of fraud as he showed them photo of log book (which he had from me for when he recovered back to uk) and told them I had authorised him


    Total incompetence and neglect on dealers part
    • Johnnyboywdz
    • By Johnnyboywdz 11th Jul 18, 8:13 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Johnnyboywdz
    this story sounds like a elaborate insurance fraud from where im sat
    Originally posted by Muscle750

    How can you even think this has anything to do with insurance fraud, when I'm not even informing my insurance company
    I am dealing with this outside of my insurance with the police and the delaership
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 11th Jul 18, 8:41 AM
    • 2,763 Posts
    • 3,101 Thanks
    TonyMMM
    Are you in some sort of dispute with the transport company - have you paid them ?
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 11th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    How can you even think this has anything to do with insurance fraud, when I'm not even informing my insurance company
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz
    That sounds like the very definition of fraud!


    You are withholding information (which you are contractually obliged to provide) with the intention of obtaining lower future premiums.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 11th Jul 18, 8:48 AM
    • 12,013 Posts
    • 8,755 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Let's sum up:

    You're "living" in France with a Landrover that requires some work to be done by a UK dealer and just so happen to know a guy that will transport it back for you.

    You let this apparent stranger stay at yours, not once but twice (possibly more?). Who does this?

    He delivers your LR without issue, presumably he's been paid? You then get him to deliver your second car back to the UK so that your insurer can assess it. Again he delivers this OK, to where exactly?

    Out of the blue, you decide that you no longer trust the guy but instead of cancelling the delivery job for some reason you decide to contact the dealership that holds your LR and tell them not to deal with him, then for no apparent reason he turns up and collect your car. Really!

    Finally, instead of actually doing the most obvious and sensible thing and contact the transport guy to see where your car is at and why he picked it up you decide to go straight to the police and to top that off, not involve your insurer.

    OP, are your really expecting us to believe any of this?
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 11th Jul 18, 9:34 AM
    • 2,430 Posts
    • 4,036 Thanks
    k3lvc
    I did not instruct him to take it - I actually informed the dealer to only deal with myself, and specifically not the transport company concerned
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz
    You're still not telling us the full story - why would the haulage company risk going to collect the vehicle which they'd already had possession of ??
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 18, 9:36 AM
    • 19,101 Posts
    • 17,509 Thanks
    AdrianC
    ...and how did they know it was ready for collection, if the dealer were storing it while warranty discussions were ongoing?
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 11th Jul 18, 10:23 AM
    • 12,013 Posts
    • 8,755 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Good morning - New on here, and my first thread


    I have a Landrover Discovery 4, 2012 54k miles. Broke down in France. Got in touch with English transport guy via a web site in France. He agreed to transport to Landrover dealer in UK for xx amount - nothing signed, and stayed at our place for few days..got on well


    Delivered car to main dealer. It has been there for 10 weeks while I have been wrangling with Landrover over warranties..contribuitions etc... Dealer had no problem with holding vehicle there for me


    Meanwhile, in France wrote off my other car when lorry pulled across me on motorway forcing me into barriers, and cleared off. Anyway, was a write off, got paid out, and told they would collect it.


    8 weeks later no collection. Phoned insurance for update. Told they had to arrange for it to come back to UK. At the time the transport guy who recovered my Landrover to UK was staying for few days as was collecting cars near us. He had a spare place on his transporter, so I suggested to insurance that maybe he could recover it back to UK. They called him and all arranged and off he went, after we had agreed that he would use their payment to cover my cost...so we were quits




    Something didn't ring right with this transport guy..gut feeling, so 2 weeks ago I phoned Landrover dealer and instructed them to only deal with myself, and specifically not to deal with the transport guy, or his company


    Imagine my shock, when I phoned the Landrover dealer yesterday to inform them that I had arranged for a friend to collect my car from them, and was informed that someone had collected it last week!!


    I asked who had signed for it, and they told me it was the guy from the transport company, who I had specifically told them not to deal with, and they had not even contacted me for authorisation! No receipt signed or anything. They said “well he had the correct paperwork” which was a photo of the front page of the log book I had sent him for when he initially transported it to UK


    Told them that they were liable and that it was down to them to recover my car. They would check with the manager, who was off yesterday, and come back to me – No call back so far




    So….as far as I am concerned, the dealer is liable, due to negligence, on the following points;


    • They released the vehicle without my authorisation, and without any correct paperwork
    • I specifically informed them not to deal with anyone except myself, and in particular not the transport guy or his company – (I have voice recording of the conversation)


    I have logged this with my local police station, and have a crime reference number, as my vehicle has been stolen, taken without my permission, but they think it might be a civil matter??? They are forwarding the report to the county where the vehicle was taken from, and they will decide if civil case or not


    Am correct in my thinking, and how should I progress ?


    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz
    Saved for posterity
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 1:19 PM
    • 2,094 Posts
    • 1,411 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    How can you even think this has anything to do with insurance fraud, when I'm not even informing my insurance company
    I am dealing with this outside of my insurance with the police and the delaership
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz

    Yet if you recover payment that would come from the dealer's insurance. So you're not off the hook on that basis.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 1:31 PM
    • 2,094 Posts
    • 1,411 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    What do you mean by this?

    "They called him and all arranged and off he went, after we had agreed that he would use their payment to cover my cost...so we were quits"

    If at any point while he was staying with you you suggested that he would pick up your Land Rover then you'll have a hard time proving TWOC. In fact he could argue you did - the photocopy of the documents might assist him. Why did you not recover this from him?
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 11th Jul 18, 1:49 PM
    • 1,809 Posts
    • 1,425 Thanks
    MEM62
    I am dealing with this outside of my insurance with the police and the delaership
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz
    Why? If it is your view that the car has been stolen you should report it to your insurers.

    Something doesn't smell right here.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 2:15 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    I did not instruct him to take it - I actually informed the dealer to only deal with myself, and specifically not the transport company concerned
    Originally posted by Johnnyboywdz
    It’s a strange with to say. Whenever I’ve had a vehicle recovered I have never instructed the garage not to return the car to the recovery operator.
    Hi there! We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 11th Jul 18, 3:04 PM
    • 429 Posts
    • 767 Thanks
    bigisi
    The fact the OP felt he had to tell the dealership not to release the vehicle to the recovery guy suggests he knew something was going to happen. This story is missing too much important information because the OP obviously doesn't want to hear what we have to say if he tells us the truth.
    • photome
    • By photome 11th Jul 18, 3:47 PM
    • 13,605 Posts
    • 9,101 Thanks
    photome
    Let's sum up:

    You're "living" in France with a Landrover that requires some work to be done by a UK dealer and just so happen to know a guy that will transport it back for you.

    You let this apparent stranger stay at yours, not once but twice (possibly more?). Who does this?

    He delivers your LR without issue, presumably he's been paid? You then get him to deliver your second car back to the UK so that your insurer can assess it. Again he delivers this OK, to where exactly?

    Out of the blue, you decide that you no longer trust the guy but instead of cancelling the delivery job for some reason you decide to contact the dealership that holds your LR and tell them not to deal with him, then for no apparent reason he turns up and collect your car. Really!

    Finally, instead of actually doing the most obvious and sensible thing and contact the transport guy to see where your car is at and why he picked it up you decide to go straight to the police and to top that off, not involve your insurer.

    OP, are your really expecting us to believe any of this?
    Originally posted by neilmcl

    Thats how I read it, doesnt sound very believable does it, its not a BMW though
    • davemorton
    • By davemorton 11th Jul 18, 5:04 PM
    • 26,928 Posts
    • 323,440 Thanks
    davemorton
    Thats how I read it, doesnt sound very believable does it, its not a BMW though
    Originally posted by photome
    Has been in the past, so that could be enough
    “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
    Juvenal, The Sixteen Satires
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