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  • FIRST POST
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 5th May 18, 5:52 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 4Thanks
    musketeer7
    Nationwide and Vodafone
    • #1
    • 5th May 18, 5:52 PM
    Nationwide and Vodafone 5th May 18 at 5:52 PM
    For the last six weeks Nationwide have been implementing system upgrades. This as left a friends Flex account in limbo. Money in the account was inaccessible and he was told continuously that there was a problem and it would be sorted. He had to borrow money for every day living expenses.

    This week he was able to access his money and Nationwide offered him a 50 Tesco voucher as compensation which he should receive in 7 days or so.

    About 3 weeks ago using a Vodafone app he set up 2 mobile phones to be topped up on the due date, a 20 bundle on both phones.
    400 was suddenly taken from his account on Tueday. On inquiring with Nationwide it transpired that Vodafone had taken the 400 instead of 40. On contacting Vodafone they admitted it was a mistake and would reimburse the 360 in 7 to 14 days. When he related the problem to me I suggested that this was theft and he contacted Vodafone who said it would be reimbursed in 3 days. It hasn't yet.

    Going to Nationwide he asked why they had made the payment without contacting him first about an unusual withdrawal. The reply was that it was assumed the money was for a new phone. I mean I can see the point why they would think that but If it emptied the account I would be very suspicious and would query it.

    Me personally would have told Vodafone it was theft and expected an immediate reimbursement or I would report it as cybercrime to the police.
Page 1
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 5th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • 737 Posts
    • 493 Thanks
    18cc
    • #2
    • 5th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • #2
    • 5th May 18, 7:21 PM
    Nothing to do with Nationwide leave them out of it everything to do with Vodafone

    Tell your friend that if he chooses to go with Vodafone then he can expect to pay the price I have never understood why anybody would take out a contract with Vodafone when there are at least three others to choose from
    • Dobbibill
    • By Dobbibill 5th May 18, 8:01 PM
    • 3,314 Posts
    • 4,241 Thanks
    Dobbibill
    • #3
    • 5th May 18, 8:01 PM
    • #3
    • 5th May 18, 8:01 PM
    If it was taken by DD he could have asked NW to do an indemnity on the payment.

    If it's taken by debit card, he needs to wait.

    This isn't theft, it's a processing error.

    Depending on the payment method, depends on the speed it can be returned.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Energy, Student Money Saving, UK Armed Forces and
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    It's not about being the best -
    It's about being better than you were yesterday.
    • pafpcg
    • By pafpcg 6th May 18, 11:33 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 252 Thanks
    pafpcg
    • #4
    • 6th May 18, 11:33 AM
    • #4
    • 6th May 18, 11:33 AM
    Nationwide offered him a 50 Tesco voucher as compensation
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    A Tesco voucher? As compensation for a Nationwide system fault? I find that surprising.
  • Vodafone
    • #5
    • 6th May 18, 11:46 AM
    • #5
    • 6th May 18, 11:46 AM
    Hi musketeet7,

    Thanks for making us aware of your friend's situation.

    So we can check the status of his refund, please ask him to email us via the form here.

    To access the form he'll need to enter the code EFT195.

    Once sent, he'll receive an automated reply with a reference number. Post it on here and I'll check that it's reached us.

    Thanks,

    Lee

    Vodafone Social Media
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Vodafone. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 6th May 18, 12:32 PM
    • 2,537 Posts
    • 2,511 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    • #6
    • 6th May 18, 12:32 PM
    • #6
    • 6th May 18, 12:32 PM
    About 3 weeks ago using a Vodafone app he set up 2 mobile phones to be topped up on the due date, a 20 bundle on both phones.
    400 was suddenly taken from his account on Tueday. On inquiring with Nationwide it transpired that Vodafone had taken the 400 instead of 40. On contacting Vodafone they admitted it was a mistake and would reimburse the 360 in 7 to 14 days. When he related the problem to me I suggested that this was theft and he contacted Vodafone who said it would be reimbursed in 3 days. It hasn't yet.
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    It isn't theft. Theft is a criminal offence that has a clear definition in law. Section 1 of the Theft Act, 1968 establishes what theft is (my emphasis):

    A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and !!!8220;thief!!!8221; and !!!8220;steal!!!8221; shall be construed accordingly.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60
    What you describe fails the definition on two counts: i) it was not a dishonest appropriation, but rather an error; ii) there was no attempt to permanently deprive, because they have clearly admitted their error and gave a timescale within which they intended to return the property. Their failure to return the funds within either of the notified timescales is eveidence of incompetence, and your friend has a claim against them for compensation due to error, but no grounds on which to procede with regard to theft. Of course, what your friend should actually have done is contacted Nationwide about this and disputed the transaction as it was not for the agreed and notified sum. This would invoke the Direct Debit Guarantee, for which immediate recompense would be made. (https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Incorrectpayments.aspx)

    Going to Nationwide he asked why they had made the payment without contacting him first about an unusual withdrawal. The reply was that it was assumed the money was for a new phone. I mean I can see the point why they would think that but If it emptied the account I would be very suspicious and would query it.
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    Nationwide paid a direct debit request on a mandate that your friend authorised. They have done nothing wrong. If an incorrect amount is debited the Direct Debit Guarantee provides the means by which that sum can be recovered. (https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/pages/directdebitguarantee.aspx)

    Me personally would have told Vodafone it was theft and expected an immediate reimbursement or I would report it as cybercrime to the police.
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    And they would have (perhaps not to your face) peed themselves laughing. No crime has been committed and the correct course of action (dealing with a claim under the Direct Debit Guarantee) was not taken. The police would have had a good laugh as well.
    Last edited by ValiantSon; 06-05-2018 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Typo
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 6th May 18, 12:35 PM
    • 2,537 Posts
    • 2,511 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    • #7
    • 6th May 18, 12:35 PM
    • #7
    • 6th May 18, 12:35 PM
    Nothing to do with Nationwide leave them out of it everything to do with Vodafone
    Originally posted by 18cc
    Wrong. Everything to do with Nationwide, as it is an error with the direct debit and they are the ones who can sort it via the Direct Debit Guarantee.

    Tell your friend that if he chooses to go with Vodafone then he can expect to pay the price I have never understood why anybody would take out a contract with Vodafone when there are at least three others to choose from
    Originally posted by 18cc
    Vodafone do have poor customer service when things go wrong, but they also have a good network and can be amongst the cheapest in certain circumstances.
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 9th May 18, 9:42 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 9:42 AM
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 9:42 AM
    Thank you Vodafone. He was given a sum of money as compensation and assured the overpayment will be refunded within 24 hours at a Vodafone shop.
  • Vodafone
    • #9
    • 9th May 18, 2:24 PM
    • #9
    • 9th May 18, 2:24 PM
    Hi musketeer7,

    Thanks for the update.

    I'm glad to hear that your friend's concerns have been resolved.

    Kind regards,

    Lee

    Vodafone Social Media
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Vodafone. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 11th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    It seems Nationwide are playing games now. Vodafone have transferred the money but Nationwide are stalling with the payment keeping it pending. On contacting Nationwide they say the money can't be released just yet.
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 26th May 18, 1:25 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    Vodafone Nationwide
    First I ask why my quick reply today never got posted.

    Update on Vodafone, they didn't pay compensation. The Vodafone shop paid him some money from what they owed him which was deducted from the balance. They transferred the balance to Nationwide but Nationwide said it hadn't cleared, so no access to his money. The Nationwide branch said there was a glitch in the system
    and to try later. This was Friday 11th of May. Since then there has been nothing but excuses.
    • Westie983
    • By Westie983 3rd Jun 18, 9:45 PM
    • 4,553 Posts
    • 15,077 Thanks
    Westie983
    Has you (or your friend) made a claim via DD indemnity if the payment was incorrect, this should be actioned by Nationwide.

    Are you sure that Vodafone have sent the money and if they have have nationwide explained why you cant have access to it?

    Something doesnt add up here, almost like we are missing chunks of the story.

    Refunds/overpayments shouldn't take this long to be refunded. *note took 24 hour for a overpayment to be paid back to me via DD indemnity for a energy supplier taking too much.

    Any more news? I would suggest your friend keeps contact with Nation-wide as they have made the mistake by paying out the incorrect amount by DD, and thats what the indemnity is for.

    Westie983
    Save 12k in 2018 #10 Total (25000)+14800/12000 = 123.33%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~ 11 #97 Total (410) + 40/500 = 8.00% ( x 11)
    Xmas 2018 1 a Day #2 Total 62.59/365 = 17.14%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total 1200/1000 = 120.00%
    2 Savers Club 2018 #16 Total (1500)+-470/2000 = 51.50%

    Total 18132.59/15865 = 114.29%

    I'm a Board Guide on Budgeting & Bank Accounts, Debt-Free Wannabe, Disability Money Matters, and Savings & Investments. I'm a volunteer helping the boards run smoothly, but I'm not a moderator, and do not read all posts. If you see an inappropriate/illegal post then email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • realaledrinker
    • By realaledrinker 4th Jun 18, 12:42 AM
    • 1,598 Posts
    • 549 Thanks
    realaledrinker
    I do wish posters making ridiculous allegations would come back and 'fess up when things get sorted.
    Ethical moneysaver
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 4th Jun 18, 1:16 AM
    • 8,013 Posts
    • 8,926 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I do wish posters making ridiculous allegations would come back and 'fess up when things get sorted.
    Originally posted by realaledrinker
    OP decided to start another new thread instead but someone (ahem!) suggested continuing on this original thread, maybe OP will do so....
    • nyermen
    • By nyermen 4th Jun 18, 7:56 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    nyermen
    For the last six weeks Nationwide have been implementing system upgrades. This as left a friends Flex account in limbo. Money in the account was inaccessible and he was told continuously that there was a problem and it would be sorted. He had to borrow money for every day living expenses.
    Sorry, but I suspect this was a compliance situation that they couldn't reveal. Eg. AML checks etc. I doubt a system upgrade affects one person, and with all the TSB news, if many were affected I'd have thought it'd be in the news? (unless I missed it).

    Re the DD - is it really direct debit or was it a debit card? Otherwise indeed, Nationwide could have reversed the direct debit. Debit card, that's with the corporate and often tends to be stalled while they check funds have arrived then head office has to approve the credit back etc...
    Peter

    Debt free - finally finished paying off 20k + Interest.
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 4th Jun 18, 9:39 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    It hasn't been resolved yet.

    Ok, so the saga continues. It was not a Direct Debit. It was a debit card transaction set up via an app so I was told.
    He still hasn't had access to that money. Any new money paid in to his account is available at present.
    There is a problem and Nationwide know about it but won't release the details for whatever reason known to themselves.

    This goes back further than the Vodafone transaction.

    He used his card at an ATM and it was kept. The machine displayed a message to use an emergency number only if a compliant bank was the issuer of the card. He phoned Nationwide and they cancelled the card. The next day he went to his branch and they said he would have to wait for a new card. He couldn't access any of the money at that point.

    A few days later they said they hadn't cancelled the card
    but then did so. He took in statements to withdraw money,
    they refused as he was only allowed to make three cash
    withdrawals without his card.
    When he got his new card, he went to a ATM to draw some cash
    but the money had gone. Going to his branch he was given a
    phone number and used their phone. He was told the money was
    there but they couldn't access it. He had to fill in a complaint form.
    He was told to wait 28 days for it to be processed. He constantly
    asked almost every day and was told there were system problems.

    Any new money could be accessed but not from the original balance.

    Then a large amount of money went in and then the Vodafone debacle
    began, and so it continues.
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 10th Jun 18, 12:59 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    Nationwide admit intrusion
    So Nationwide have found the money. He can't access it as it's kept pending. It's not a few quid either,several hundred pounds he can't access.

    Have they been hacked? It seems Nationwide have admitted an Intrusion, mmmm. So where does that leave him?

    Any ideas anyone?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 10th Jun 18, 2:00 PM
    • 8,013 Posts
    • 8,926 Thanks
    eskbanker
    For the last six weeks Nationwide have been implementing system upgrades. This as left a friends Flex account in limbo. Money in the account was inaccessible and he was told continuously that there was a problem and it would be sorted.
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    So Nationwide have found the money. He can't access it as it's kept pending. It's not a few quid either,several hundred pounds he can't access.

    Have they been hacked? It seems Nationwide have admitted an Intrusion, mmmm. So where does that leave him?

    Any ideas anyone?
    Originally posted by musketeer7
    My view is that you or your friend (maybe both) has a very vivid imagination!

    Right from the start of this thread, when he or you tried to claim that access to his money was prevented by a six-week system upgrade that nobody else has heard of, it's been increasingly implausible (not helped by getting intermingled with an apparently unrelated Vodafone error), so you'll understand why people will have some difficulty with unsubstantiated assertions that Nationwide have now admitted an intrusion - mmmmm indeed....

    Your friend obviously needs to continue to pursue Nationwide through their formal complaints process as there's nothing anyone on here can do, although my advice to him/you would be to stick to concise and clear facts when doing so rather than potentially discrediting himself by including uninformed speculation and flights of fancy.
    • musketeer7
    • By musketeer7 10th Jun 18, 11:42 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    musketeer7
    Thank you for your judgement on this matter.

    Point one the upgrade was six weeks ago from the original date of the post, not for six weeks ongoing. It should have read In the last six weeks instead of for.

    Vodafone was not a side issue as he still hasn't had that money even though they transferred it back into his account.

    Nationwide are investigating why the overall money as been disappearing and reappearing but they weren't able to stabilize it for some reason.

    He has made multiple complaints.

    Another investigation is under way on another matter.

    I transferred 10 into his account and he called me to say it wasn't there. He went into his branch and was told it had been bounced back. This was not true as my payments are tracked and Nationwide had accepted the payment. A few days later they said the money had been paid somewhere in the Isle of Man. That hasn't concluded yet.

    I or he must have imagined that.

    He's had excuse after excuse. Nationwide said they seem to have had an intrusion in the system, hence the ongoing investigation.

    In light of what's going on generally with scams etc, I don't need a vivid imagination. I have my own thoughts on what is happening but no proof as of yet.

    When this matter gets resolved I will post the conclusion.

    I appreciate that no one can help on this site and I'm glad that it doesn't seem to have happened to anyone else.
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