Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 10th Apr 18, 8:58 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 27Thanks
    Elmo111
    Letter Before Claim - UKPPO
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:58 PM
    Letter Before Claim - UKPPO 10th Apr 18 at 8:58 PM
    Hi everyone,

    After receiving this 'Letter Before Claim' from UK Parking Patrol Office, I'm wondering what my next move should be. Attached is a Google Drive link to a PDF I've compiled.

    hxxp://bit.ly/2JBgY3Q

    As seen on the first and second page of the LBC, they're intending to commence legal action to recover the amount of 665.02 from 4 separate parking charge notices, one dated from July last year and 3 from September. On page 3, they've attached a DEFENDANT'S REPLY FORM, which states my reason to reply based on their legal action.

    I've replied to them via e-mail stating that this is the absolute FIRST I have heard about the 4 parking charge notices and the fact that it's gone this far without any debt collectors letters or correspondence from themselves and leads me to believe I am in a difficult situation.

    Since the e-mail to UKPPC, I have been in an e-mail chain with them disputing the delivery/the acceptance of these letters and as a matter of 'good-will', they will knock the amount outstanding to 600.00.

    I'm trying to keep this thread short and sweet, as from previous forum posts on MSE, I understand the complexities of where this may lead me. After replies directly with 'Karen', from 'UKPPO Legal Department', I've got 7 days worth of correspondence between myself and Karen and will post if requested. As a slight summary of where I'm at with replies from Karen, she's telling me to dispute the letters I've not received from the debt recovery company called 'Debt Recovery Plus', and the 600 outstanding still stands. Based on the original 30 days, I'm now left with 7 days. I have also mentioned that I am absolutely in no way disputing the original parking charge notices and I'm more than willing to pay the initial figure of each notice, just not this figure based on their inability to tell me where this inflated number comes from.

    According to the date on the letter, the LBC was sent on the 20th March, but unfortunately, I'd received the letter on the 1st of April, so this instantly took 11 days off the 30 days they'd given me to respond/make payment. Karen has seemingly signed off today's reply with a rather informal 'Balance to be paid within 7 days'.

    I would absolutely love some support with this matter and I am unbelievably grateful of any time spent with me on this.

    (A slight spelling giggle from the letter - looks like they can't copy and paste a link from a URL bar...)

    Kind regards,
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Apr 18, 9:15 PM
    • 36,571 Posts
    • 82,831 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:15 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:15 PM
    http://bit.ly/2JBgY3Q

    Start with post 2 of the NEWBIES where you will find guide to court by bargepole which includes how to reply to a LBC.

    Unfortunately in your emails to the scammers you have probably given away the driver's identity. There's nothing that can be done about that now though if that's the case.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    Not seen a UKPPO claim before, I suspect they will muck it up and are just getting over-excited at the thought of intimidating you and the fact that a larger sum than just one PCN is at stake.

    We do help people win 99% of defended claims.

    We hope you didn't go and say who parked on each occasion?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 10th Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    Not seen a UKPPO claim before, I suspect they will muck it up and are just getting over-excited at the thought of intimidating you and the fact that a larger sum than just one PCN is at stake.

    We do help people win 99% of defended claims.

    We hope you didn't go and say who parked on each occasion?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Hi Coupon-Mad!

    I've not stated who parked on each occasion. In the e-mail correspondence with UKPPO, I'm simply reiterating I haven't received the debt collectors letters or any previous letters from UKPPO other than this LBC. However in the e-mail trail Karen from UKPPC is starting each e-mail with 'Dear *last name*'.

    In one of the replies, I'm not denying the PCN are payable, I'm disputing the large figure they're charging me based on absolutely no prior contact from them.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Apr 18, 9:56 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:56 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:56 PM
    Are you saying you have received nothing, no PCN on the car, no Notice to Keeper letters in the Summer/Autumn?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 10th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    Are you saying you have received nothing, no PCN on the car, no Notice to Keeper letters in the Summer/Autumn?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I absolutely do not recall any PCN on any occasion on the vehicle - and likewise, no Notice to Keeper letters. (what even are they?!)...

    UKPPO are stating that they have sent 1 letter per PCN, sticking to the 600.00 charge and given details to contact the debt recovery company to query why I have never received letters from them.

    The language used in the last e-mail from UKPPO also appears to carry a frustrated tone with my requests for information.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 18, 12:22 AM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 12:22 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 12:22 AM
    Who cares about their frustrated tone, hit them with your angry 'I am not a mug' tone!

    Did this 'Karen' send you copies of all PCNs and all NTKs and a picture of the contract (the signage terms) and proof in the form of all photos taken of the car on those material dates?

    If not, ask for them all, and ask whether UKPPO seeks to bring claims under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) or against the driver. If the latter, where is their evidence to identify that person?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 11th Apr 18, 1:17 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 1:17 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 1:17 PM
    Who cares about their frustrated tone, hit them with your angry 'I am not a mug' tone!

    Did this 'Karen' send you copies of all PCNs and all NTKs and a picture of the contract (the signage terms) and proof in the form of all photos taken of the car on those material dates?

    If not, ask for them all, and ask whether UKPPO seeks to bring claims under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) or against the driver. If the latter, where is their evidence to identify that person?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Currently awaiting a reply after asking for the evidence you requested, thanks again Coupon-Mad.

    They seem to reply at the very final hours of each 9-5 working day, to prevent a further response until the next day I imagine?

    Do you think I should contact Debt Recovery Plus asking if they have recorded delivery for each supposed letter sent?

    In my next e-mail I'll hit them with a question of their intentions. Out of curiosity, at this point (with only 7 days left until they draw up some kind of claim), what should I be expecting of their replies?

    Thanks again for your time.
    Last edited by Elmo111; 11-04-2018 at 1:23 PM. Reason: missed sentence.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Apr 18, 2:21 PM
    • 2,303 Posts
    • 2,750 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 2:21 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 2:21 PM
    Ignore DRP. Theyre not part of the process.
    They will not have any proof of posting anything.
    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 11th Apr 18, 3:57 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    Ignore DRP. Theyre not part of the process.
    They will not have any proof of posting anything.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Hi nosferatu1001,

    On request of coupon-mad, I've e-mailed UKPPO and they have responded with the attached evidence of the vehicle parked with the PCN's affixed to the windshield. They've not responded with any of the NTKs or the signage terms.

    Here is their reply to my request for the information of each individual PCN and how they're calculating the 600.00.

    *************
    to, XXXXXXX

    Please see the attached photographic evidence, confirming both that a contravention took place and that a PCN was placed on the vehicle for notification purposes. Without evidence to the contrary, I must assume that, on the balance of probabilities, that this PCN was duly received.

    Please note that a PCN and further correspondence was sent to the vehicle's registered address for notification purposes. If there has been a problem regarding the delivery of the documentation, this is a matter to raise with your postal service.


    Under The Interpretations Act 1978:

    Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression !!!8220;serve!!!8221; or the expression !!!8220;give!!!8221; or !!!8220;send!!!8221; or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post..

    The initial cost of each PCN is 100.00 was due within 28 days, reduced to 60.00 if paid within 14 days. We are still willing to accept 600.00.

    Attached is a Statement of outstanding balance which includes details on how to pay.

    *************

    Thank you for your time, nosferatu1001.
    Last edited by Elmo111; 11-04-2018 at 6:15 PM. Reason: spelling
    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 11th Apr 18, 9:35 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    Just bumping this to the top, I'm feeling this unnecessary pressure based on UKPPO's impeding deadline that they've given me - now 5 days.

    Any help in composing a response to the last email from UKPPO is massively appreciated.

    Thank you.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    • 6,694 Posts
    • 5,922 Thanks
    KeithP
    Just bumping this to the top, I'm feeling this unnecessary pressure based on UKPPO's impeding deadline that they've given me - now 5 days.

    Any help in composing a response to the last email from UKPPO is massively appreciated.

    Thank you.
    Originally posted by Elmo111
    I wouldn't respond further.
    Wait for the Claim Form.
    You are not going to convince them to do otherwise unless you cough up 600, and before you ask, no-one is suggesting you do that.

    While waiting, of course you can begin to prepare yourself by re-reading post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
    .
    • Castle
    • By Castle 11th Apr 18, 9:56 PM
    • 1,645 Posts
    • 2,214 Thanks
    Castle
    Refer them to part 5.2 of the pre-action Protocol:-

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf


    And request the proof of postings necessary for them to use the Interpretations Act.

    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 11th Apr 18, 10:53 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    [SIZE=3]Refer them to part 5.2 of the pre-action Protocol:-

    And request the proof of postings necessary for them to use the Interpretations Act.

    Originally posted by Castle
    Thanks for the reply Castle, when you say proof of postings - do you mean a receipt as such that they should have for each of the NTK's that they've sent out - as in possibly recorded delivery receipts?

    In response to KiethP - is it wise that I stop fighting my ground having gone this far in already?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Apr 18, 1:42 AM
    • 36,571 Posts
    • 82,831 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for the reply Castle, when you say proof of postings - do you mean a receipt as such that they should have for each of the NTK's that they've sent out - as in possibly recorded delivery receipts?

    In response to KiethP - is it wise that I stop fighting my ground having gone this far in already?
    Originally posted by Elmo111
    Proof of posting such as a, well, proof of posting that you get from a Post Office counter when you send something first class post from a Post Office counter. Recorded delivery, if not signed for, is proof of non delivery.

    You have nothing to worry about unless this gets to court, but if that is the case, you should know that we have a 99% win rate with MSE assisted court cases.

    Nobody here wants you to stop. In fact, everyone here will support you in whatever you decide, but know this, you can win.
    You should win.
    You must win.

    What Keith is saying is, the ball is in your court and now you wait to see who blinks first. If they try court, you have a very, very good chance of winning with the full support of all the experts here.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 12-04-2018 at 1:53 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Castle
    • By Castle 12th Apr 18, 10:00 AM
    • 1,645 Posts
    • 2,214 Thanks
    Castle
    ELMO111
    You may want to contact the DVLA and find out when your data was accessed by UKPPO; it's possible they only asked for it once and then re-used it.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Apr 18, 10:11 AM
    • 2,265 Posts
    • 4,021 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    They are also known not to take or keep pics/paperwork.

    You do know the legal department is run out of the back of a garage in Manchester.

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4696142,-2.1582579,3a,90y,238.22h,78.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LohvZotKivAhoFt6lga4Q!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

    If you are close, pop in and ask for the pics. Also UKPPO's owner's name is pronounced "cheat em"
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 12-04-2018 at 10:18 AM.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Apr 18, 10:37 AM
    • 9,080 Posts
    • 8,783 Thanks
    The Deep
    Meanwhile, up the ante, get your MP involved.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 12th Apr 18, 9:01 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    Thanks everyone again for all of your help and support - honestly this is a ridiculous amount of assistance you've given me so far! Overwhelming to say the least.

    @Fruitcake, I e-mailed last night asking for the proofs requested, highlighting the use of the Interpretations Act - and also referring them to part 5.2 of the pre-action Protocol. I've had no communication from them today, which is the first day they've not replied other than on the weekend.

    @Castle, I'll e-mail the DVLA and find out when the data was accessed.

    @IamEmanresu, That's a great idea, i'll pop in tomorrow.

    @The Deep, Wow, I didn't know this whole 'industry' is so scandalous...getting a local MP involved is absolutely next level to show these parking fools that we're not standing down.

    Again I cannot thank you enough for your advice so far, I hope you're all having a good week too!
    • Elmo111
    • By Elmo111 13th Apr 18, 4:10 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Elmo111
    Afternoon everyone,

    It looks like UKPPO have gone quiet with me after my last e-mail, so I thought I'd post a little update.

    I'd requested each NTK of the 4 parking charges, and a picture of the signage terms, as the signage pictures they've sent me in their last correspondence are completely illegible.

    I've also asked if they seek to bring claims under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) as suggested above by Coupon-Mad.

    I referred UKPPO to 5.2 of the pre-action Protocol, and this seemingly where they have decided not to respond.

    Today I've e-mailed the DVLA asking for information about when UKPPO have requested my information.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,107Posts Today

7,092Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Yes you would think in this electronic day and age. They could put digital ticket machines on trains https://t.co/RPo4XXvrwk

  • RT @Mattallwright: Martin: supplementary: Does she know which platform the train is on, or is it Paddington with five minutes notice to cov?

  • RT @KTMGordo: @MartinSLewis Imagine Jane is hungry and late for an urgent appointment & needs to buy a sandwich but the queue's huge. Is?

  • Follow Martin