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  • FIRST POST
    • smach123
    • By smach123 3rd Feb 18, 10:14 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    smach123
    Euro Parking Services Court Action
    • #1
    • 3rd Feb 18, 10:14 PM
    Euro Parking Services Court Action 3rd Feb 18 at 10:14 PM
    Hello, first time posting and in need of some advice,
    Back in November I received a PCN for not parking correctly within the markings of the bay or space bearing in mind I was running late for university and there were no other bays available.
    I send an appeal saying how the charge is unfair. I didn!!!8217;t cause any obstruction or block any other vehicles and paid for my ticket. I!!!8217;ve witnessed other vehicles parked in the same location before and received no PCN. They declined my appeal and I proceeded to not follow up.
    They have now sent me a !!!8220;Letter Before Court Action!!!8221; now telling me to pay £160 threatening to take me to court. Here is a print screen of the letter. How do I proceed?

    Thanks
    (p.s sorry I cannot post links.)
    Last edited by smach123; 05-02-2018 at 11:25 PM.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 3rd Feb 18, 10:33 PM
    • 35,179 Posts
    • 19,282 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 3rd Feb 18, 10:33 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Feb 18, 10:33 PM
    Proceed to the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    See #2 for advice on how to deal with the letter and how to prepare a defence


    Urgently edit your photos to remove unique info that identifies you


    The ppcs monitor here and can use your posts against you
    Last edited by Quentin; 03-02-2018 at 10:36 PM.
    • smach123
    • By smach123 3rd Feb 18, 11:11 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    smach123
    • #3
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:11 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:11 PM
    Proceed to the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    See #2 for advice on how to deal with the letter and how to prepare a defence


    Urgently edit your photos to remove unique info that identifies you


    The ppcs monitor here and can use your posts against you
    Originally posted by Quentin
    I've read through the post and I'm a little confused. Do I need to take any action now?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 3rd Feb 18, 11:18 PM
    • 35,179 Posts
    • 19,282 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #4
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:18 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:18 PM
    You do if you have received a lbcca. (You still nee to edit that photo of the letter)


    All covered in the FAQ
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Feb 18, 11:19 PM
    • 6,702 Posts
    • 5,928 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:19 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:19 PM
    I've read through the post and I'm a little confused. Do I need to take any action now?
    Originally posted by smach123
    When you 'read through the post' did you notice the third sentence:
    If you have a Letter Before Claim (LBC, sometimes referred to on forums as a LBCCC), you must respond robustly.
    .
    • logician
    • By logician 3rd Feb 18, 11:51 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    • #6
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:51 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Feb 18, 11:51 PM
    The letter is not compliant with the new Pre-action protocol (PAP) on debt recovery which came into force on the 1.10.17

    It is requesting a response within 14 days and not the 30 days now afforded and does not appear to have the relevant accompanying forms.

    Write back to them pointing this out and state that when you receive a fully compliant letter before claim then you will respond appropriately within the relevant time frame but point out it is likely you will need copies of the relevant documents

    The new criteria for debt can is via this link

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 12:15 AM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 4th Feb 18, 12:15 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Feb 18, 12:15 AM
    https://prnt.sc/i9qs3z

    An example letter to reply to that is linked in the NEWBIES thread, or here's one you can adapt and change the name of the PPC to Euro Parking Services:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73456212#post73456212

    Interesting that they've dispensed with Gladstones LBCCCs and are using some ancient template of their own which totally fails to meet the PAP.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Feb 18, 2:51 AM
    • 2,266 Posts
    • 4,022 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 4th Feb 18, 2:51 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Feb 18, 2:51 AM
    Interesting that they've dispensed with Gladstones LBCCCs
    Or they have tumbled to the fact that Gladstones are ripping them off. Why pay a fortune for a template and a rent-a-mouth. EPS can !!!! it up themselves for less.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • 9,088 Posts
    • 8,783 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 4th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    Gladstones have been mentioned in the HoC as scammers, and reported by an MP to the SRA, watch this

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    Complain to your MP and the SRA mentioning the will of Paeliament.


    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems.page
    Last edited by The Deep; 04-02-2018 at 12:12 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • smach123
    • By smach123 5th Feb 18, 11:32 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    smach123
    Cheers for the advice, I have adapted the letter as mentioned above. Can you check to see if anything is missing?

    Dear Euro Parking Services Ltd.

    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Action of 2nd February 2018.
    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your case places reliance upon.

    You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    You must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter, as a serial litigator of small claims, should be aware of them. As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm such as yourselves are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including yourself, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1!!!8221; establishing yourself as the creditor!!!8221;.
    8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20), Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until you at Euro Parking Services Ltd have complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Yours faithfully
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Feb 18, 11:38 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Great, the only changes I saw are ''Whether they'' (should be ''whether you'').
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • smach123
    • By smach123 6th Feb 18, 12:03 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    smach123
    Do I need to include PCN number too?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Feb 18, 12:06 AM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    When you write a letter you always head it up formally, with address, date , 'your ref' etc.

    In fact ''yours sincerely'' goes with 'Dear (named firm)', not 'faithfully' which follows 'Dear Sirs'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • smach123
    • By smach123 6th Feb 18, 9:10 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    smach123
    I was going to send it by email, do I have to send it by letter through the post?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 6th Feb 18, 9:43 AM
    • 2,558 Posts
    • 1,408 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
    This doesn't make sense, it seems to stop, were you going to put something else after ..... and, when costs come to be considered, I will request £nn for example.

    Grammatically, for your points 2 & 3 you should use "If" rather than "Whether" because Whether introduces an either/or situation for example "whether you are pursuing me as keeper or driver".

    Probably won't bother the court but it doesn't hurt to be correct.
    • smach123
    • By smach123 15th Feb 18, 2:25 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    smach123
    Hi guys,
    I sent the letter to the parking company. I received a reply from one of the people saying "I have received your letter and am not sure how you would like me to help you".
    They have listed a mobile number to contact them.
    How do i respond?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 15th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 9,088 Posts
    • 8,783 Thanks
    The Deep
    For goodness sake, so many simple questions.


    Write to them again, enclosing your previous letter, get a paper trail going, judges love a paper trail. Never speak to a PPC or debt collector on the 'phone.

    Have you complained to your MP yet?
    Last edited by The Deep; 15-02-2018 at 2:42 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 18, 3:03 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,940 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi guys,
    I sent the letter to the parking company. I received a reply from one of the people saying "I have received your letter and am not sure how you would like me to help you".
    They have listed a mobile number to contact them.
    How do i respond?
    Originally posted by smach123
    You don't, not by phone! Rogue Parking firms don't ''help you'' and NO-ONE EVER phones them. As TD says, you could simply send another copy of your letter and say:

    I'm waiting for your evidence, and will not be telephoning you about this 'outrageous scam' (Hansard, 2.2.18, Parliamentary debate about rogue parking firms, where Gladstones and IPC AOS members were named and shamed).
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-02-2018 at 3:05 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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