Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?
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.....A good way to check out what you can get in terms of price is LPG Compare. They will shop around for a price for you.........
This is Jon Rose, based in/near Telford? I guess he gets commission from the supplier as he says his service is free to the user. If it is Jon Rose then he used to 'advertise' on the forum - saying what a good service he got from LPG Compare! Not surprisingly his posts got deleted by MSE......LIMA have offered 38p/litre, not fixed with first delivery at 30p/litre if taken during summer months.....
A stunningly good price! Do you have any more info about LIMA, please? Website? Tank rental cost? Area they supply to? (And, of course, how much do you use p.a. and what's your tank size, to put this price in context?)........ Finally went with CALOR at 44ppl fixed for 12 months and £150 credit. .....
BUT you wrote:......Calor fully acknowledge that the international price has come down and have no explanation for why they continuously push up prices in a falling market......
What price promise have you got from Calor, please, after the initial 12 months? The independents get used to having their quotes undercut by Calor - which then just increases its prices, as you've said, even when the international price is stable or falling........ This forum is great in that its the only place I know where we can all get up to date info......
... so who needs LPG Compare? There are several examples on the forum where users have got better offers by using quotes posted on the forum! For example, danlojo here and several posts by ironnick - maybe start here. There's also a man called Dickie who runs a (small) forum here: I think he gets some of his 'grapevine' info from this MSE forum!....If anyone has access to Platts or or Argus North Sea index we could then over time work out the margins that Calor etc work to. ...
See my next post! The graphs get updated by HateLPG whenever we get new info. If anyone can get more prices (e.g. from LIMA) then we can add them. We hope to get older prices from Cardiff Gas and Extra Fuel in time - but it's very clear that their prices follow the international wholesale price ... whereas Calor's - as you've said - have a one-way trajectory. Ditto Flogas. Ditto BP (?the zombie supplier)..... They at the moment have all the cards unless we work together.
Indeed!
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I have recently switched from Calor to Avanti for 41.4 pence per litre fixed for 1 year and £60 per annum tank rental. Other quotes were in the 44 to 46 pence per litre range. I gave Calor two bites at the cherry (the first one being to ring them up and tell them my contract had expired!) before signing with Avanti. My usage is circa 3800 litres per annum in Aberdeenshire.0
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Calors terms of trade. After 12 months they can increase by 3.5ppl every 3 months. However, I discussed this with the Calor contact and he said 'We know you will change if we push up the price every 3 months.' I will hold them to this and will report to the forum in a years time as to what happens. As I only fill up twice a year, even if they push through the full 14ppl in the year, I would not pay the full price if i organise fillups. Hope this helps. PS well done for the graph which is fantastic for having info to fight back!0
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Anyone know if I purchase my bulk tank from BP will suppliers refuse to fill if it isn't sited in accordance with latest regulations? Or, Is the issue exchange of ownership of the tank whilst it isnt sited correctly? We have our tank against a boundary fence which has open countryside on the other side, yet due to the inflexibility of the regulations, will require moving if I want to change contract.
Anyone know roughly how much to purchase the tank off bp or flogas?0 -
I read somewhere that it's still the responsibility of the tanker driver not to deliver if the tank isn't sited within regulations.0
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I'm going through the 2-yearly charade again as my contract with Calor comes up for renewal. Flogas have quoted me 42ppl fixed 12 months with £250 goodwill credit, £52 pa standing charge (sounds quite good I think). I'm in Surrey.
Increases thereafter, so the salesman tells me, are limited by law to a maximum of 5ppl in 12 months unless the wholesale price has gone up by more than that- anyone else heard of this?
Next move is to contact Calor and see what they will offer.0 -
I read somewhere that it's still the responsibility of the tanker driver not to deliver if the tank isn't sited within regulations.
On Calor's website (here):
And Flogas's PROPANE DELIVERY TICKET gets the meter readings printed automatically BUT ALSO has a section which the driver has to fill in by hand which includes:The cost of this service is covered within the standing charge which includes the following:- Before and during every tank refill our highly skilled drivers will carry out a range of important safety and maintenance checks.
- As safety is a number one priority at Calor, we always replace vital components well within their working lifetime and the driver will complete a safety check prior to filling.
so it's very obvious if the driver has NOT ticked the box!Site Inspection as per WI.9 [ ]
Defects found
If anyone would like a scan of one of these tickets please pm me. And if anyone can tell us the content of WI.9 please do!
Of course, neither Calor nor Flogas mention compliance with the latest Code of Practice - the latest of which came out this summer.
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Calors terms of trade. After 12 months they can increase by 3.5ppl every 3 months. However, I discussed this with the Calor contact and he said 'We know you will change if we push up the price every 3 months.' I will hold them to this and will report to the forum in a years time as to what happens. As I only fill up twice a year, even if they push through the full 14ppl in the year, I would not pay the full price if i organise fillups. Hope this helps. PS well done for the graph which is fantastic for having info to fight back!
Thanks for this. BUT can I suggest you either get the Calor contact's words in writing OR you send him/her an email quoting your conversation (with the date) and ask him/her to confirm that this was what was agreed.
Sadly there are too many (i.e. more than zero) reports on this forum of suppliers saying something wasn't said, etc etc. The topics - well, you've guessed: initial price, guarantee, maximum rate of rise, correction of faults .... yes, all the things which would cost the supplier money.0 -
Anyone know if I purchase my bulk tank from BP will suppliers refuse to fill if it isn't sited in accordance with latest regulations? Or, Is the issue exchange of ownership of the tank whilst it isnt sited correctly? We have our tank against a boundary fence which has open countryside on the other side, yet due to the inflexibility of the regulations, will require moving if I want to change contract.
Anyone know roughly how much to purchase the tank off bp or flogas?
Hi Paul,
There's a formula set down by the Competition Commission Order for the value of a tank when sold by the outgoing supplier to the incoming supplier. The info is in Schedule 1 in this pdf. There's no mention, I think, of the price if the user wants to buy the tank off the supplier. Depending the age of your tank you might do better buying a new tank - and making sure it meets the UKLPG's Code of Practice PLUS any extra requirements of the different companies.
Several people who own their tanks have posted on the forum - you might pm them to see if they are having problems now the COP has been revised. Relevant posts from molokoid (here), The Q (here) and islandlass (here).
Extra Fuel quote TWO prices now - one when they own the tank, the other (5p cheaper at present) when you do. Cardiff Gas say the price for owners is lower than the price they give on their website. AND, of course, the monthly prices of both these companies are on the graph (here)....and their prices go UP and DOWN, as you can see.
I'd be happier owning my own tank if I had a range of suppliers, including independents! It does look as if problems of tanks not meeting current regs (i.e. COP) is being used to inhibit switching (switching was one way the Competition Commission's order was designed to improve the 'market' for the user, another was to limit contracts to 2 years).
BTW, did BP install your tank? I wonder if there is a way to instal a fireproof wall / blast wall to meet the COP? Otherwise you may need to provide a new plinth, etc. Can you argue that the installation NEVER met COP, even when newly installed? There are some relevant posts on the forum on tank siting. In a few cases the supplier has paid for the necessary changes.
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