Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes
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As well as not believing in the so-called efficiency of the market in certain areas, I do believe very strongly in the general principles of a free press/free speech (and go so far as to be OK with that being offensive - we have the right to offended and be offended, so long as it does not incite/provoke violence - just so you know where I am coming from) and that is why I and I suspect others may have joined MSE. I'm not out to get OTC for the sake of it, I am out to let others know what is happening, and add my one small voice to the growing roar of outrage at OTC's behaviour. It is a fact of life that in liberal democracies like ours there is room for cowboys, and the most powerful way, short of the law when criminal activity is involved, of dealing with cowboys is exposure. The glare of adverse publicity is a powerful weapon.
Like others, I knew about the forthcoming price rise when I signed up to OTC. It was a variable tariff, so I expected prices rises sooner or later (whether I was told about the rise in advance or not, and OTC, to their credit, did flag up an imminent price rise - it was one of the things that made me think they were OK - how different things seemed then) - but I expected them to be reasonable. I did not expect a gratuitous 25% hike in my DD. The trouble is that, although OTC have admitted their 'mistake', and !!!!!! how on earth do you get to make such a big mistake if you aren't either incompetent and/or dodgy, the mistake and it's handling have exposed a side of OTC that I for one do not like. On the other hand, if OTC really are the cheapest for some, great for them (both OTC and the customer), but for me OTC are not the cheapest on a bare bones comparison, and if I were to factor is the OTC hassle factor - 'priceless'! - then they are definitely not the best deal for me. As for dealing with bad timing, I've already done that, by initiating a switch away from OTC. But wouldn't life be sweeter without all this constant market research/work/activity... Some of us want to have a life beyond plugging numbers into spreadsheets.
I suspect the upshot or perhaps that should be downshot of all this is going to be OTC hitting the fan. We here are the vocal minority, and a very small minority at that, and we have no way of knowing how many are leaving OTC silently (OTC will have an idea, but they aren't going to put that in the public domain - unless it really is only a handful, in which case they could put a positive spin on it - so the fact they haven't done so suggests the numbers leaving aren't that small). Their biggest error by a long shot is destroying trust, almost always a fatal move in commerce. It erodes confidence in existing customers, and warns new ones off. Almost as bad is flippancy and it's ugly cousin arrogance (we know how to manage your budget better than you do) as this can provoke customers into leaving even when that means paying more on a matter of principle. OTC has made all these mistakes - and more.
I will be interested to see how things turn out in say six months time. I am about to go on to a fix that is only about £100pa more than OTC's December rate. Others are doing similar moves. If OTC are still around, will their rates have overtaken my and others fixed rates? If OTM do go under, how much grief will that entail, and how does that get factored in to overall costs and benefits?
Only time will tell...0 -
An interesting point for those of you in lots of credit like me -
I think it may be best not to switch, and wait for them to go bust (everyone thinks it pretty likely they will).
If you watched Martin's TV show on Monday this week, he made the following point which made my ears really perk up.
If your energy company goes bust while you're still with them, your credit balance will be protected and transferred to the taking over supplier.
However, if you have switched, or are in the process of switching, and waiting for your credit after final bill to be refunded to you (in my case £250), then this is NOT protected as OFTM are NOT your supplier at the time of the collapse. He ummed and aaahed a bit and said hopefully the new supplier would also refund those credit balances too, but no guarantee. There's no protection of this money, like say a bank. Only if you are still with the supplier when they fold.
Did anyone else hear this? Any comments?
I'm thinking it may be best to stay so that my £250 is protected when the inevitable happens. If I left I can't imagine OFTM would be refunding my credit swiftly so I'd be left without protection for that money for months on end till 'maybe' they got round to it, if ever, before folding.0 -
bye_bye_band_G wrote: »An interesting point for those of you in lots of credit like me -
I think it may be best not to switch, and wait for them to go bust (everyone thinks it pretty likely they will).
If you watched Martin's TV show on Monday this week, he made the following point which made my ears really perk up.
If your energy company goes bust while you're still with them, your credit balance will be protected and transferred to the taking over supplier.
However, if you have switched, or are in the process of switching, and waiting for your credit after final bill to be refunded to you (in my case £250), then this is NOT protected as OFTM are NOT your supplier at the time of the collapse. He ummed and aaahed a bit and said hopefully the new supplier would also refund those credit balances too, but no guarantee. There's no protection of this money, like say a bank. Only if you are still with the supplier when they fold.
Did anyone else hear this? Any comments?
I'm thinking it may be best to stay so that my £250 is protected when the inevitable happens. If I left I can't imagine OFTM would be refunding my credit swiftly so I'd be left without protection for that money for months on end till 'maybe' they got round to it, if ever, before folding.
Have a read of this link:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2018/11/gas_slc_modification_official_notice.pdf
Quote: These changes will allow a potential supplier of last resort (SoLR) to recover costs associated with honouring credit balances for customers who have switched away from the failing supplier at the date the supplier fails. The changes will also ensure that any claim for credit balances represents the actual amounts owed to customers by the failed supplier and provide appropriate flexibility in the timings for the process of making a claim.0 -
Thank you Hengus, that is just what I wanted to hear.
Maybe Martin didn't quite have his facts straight on his TV programme.
I note it says this takes effect from 1 January 2019, so I'm still thinking I should wait till then to switch to get full protection of my credit balance?0 -
I know what you mean, but I'm not taking any more chances. They have proved themselves to be so incompetent, sly and shamefully lacking in customer service that I would rather get away from them as soon as possible. My bank (First Direct) agrees: I've now had three conversations with them since the first OFtM announcement last week and their advice was to switch as soon as possible. They've effectively blocked me from giving OFtM any more money as well as blocking OFtM's attempts to reinstate the DD I cancelled.bye_bye_band_G wrote: »An interesting point for those of you in lots of credit like me -
I think it may be best not to switch, and wait for them to go bust (everyone thinks it pretty likely they will).
Obviously everyone has to do what's best in their own circumstances but I wouldn't trust OFtM with £1 more of my money, let alone the amounts required to pay my energy bill. Yes I want my credit back of course but it appears that there are safeguards in place, see Hengus' post about Ofgem, that mean I will get it back eventually. Having said all that, if my bank weren't being so supportive I might come to a different conclusion.0 -
MoneyBox (BBC R4, noon today) led with the OTM story. I didn't catch the whole piece but it should soon be available on iPlayer for those who want to listen. One thing I did catch was that of some 70 (?) or so energy suppliers, six or seven have already gone bust this year, and an industry expert predicted that a good many more (10?) will go bust over the coming winter. 17/70 failures - how on earth can that be said to be efficient?0
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I am surprised that oftm is still on mse comparison site, i do hope people read this forum before signing up.0
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Agree with pretty much all the comments on here! Sorry in advance for the essay, but this is my experience with OFTM so far...
I joined OFTM in Feb 2018 on the fixed 18months Whack January dual fuel tariff. Various teething issues gave me an uncomfortable feeling about this energy supplier.
Firstly, they charge me the high user membership fee, when for almost all months of the year I am a medium user, and it states in my Welcome Pack that I would be charged the medium user rate. When questioning this in March, when I certainly was a medium user, they fobbed me off with a response about it being based on my estimated annual consumption. Their figure was incorrect and when I enquired how they came up with it, they couldn’t give a satisfactory answer. They said it was reviewed every few months. Convient for them they decided to go with the high user fee as default, going against what was stated when I signed up. One month this summer they did (what I can only assume was an accident by them, albeit a correct one) actually charge me the correct medium user fee. Then the next month it was back up to the high user rate, they again quoted some BS about an estimated annual consumption figure. I gave up on this in the end, as it’s ony a few quid a month difference, but it was the principle of it that got my back up.
Secondly, although providing meter readings 5 or so days before my bill date for the first few months (after receiving each monthly meter reading reminder email they send) these accurate meter readings were not taken into account and estimated readings were used to calculate my bills - one month an over charge of about 75%! When I questioned this they told me not to worry about the over inflated estimated readings as it would all balance out in the end. I told them that was not acceptable, as although I was paying a set DD amount each month, my account was showing a considerable incorrect debit. They reissued the bill with the correct figures. After a lot of beating around the bush, it was revealed that I have to give them the meter readings on the exact day before the billing date each month, or my readings will not be taken into account. Why was I never told this? Anyway, so now I set an alarm on my phone for that day each month and make sure I submit the meter readings each month on the exact day. No issues with that since, but what a finicky process.
I’ve put up with all the above, due to getting cheaper fuel and being able to review/manage my usage online easier than with my previous supplier, but OFTM has felt fishy right from the start. I got really annoyed by that membership fee structure change they tried to make a few months back and then they backed down on it. I’ve watched with sympathy as they hiked up the prices on the variable tariffs. Now we’ve all been shafted with this DD structure change. To be honest I wasn't surpirsed to see them trying another hair brained scheme, but I am appalled that there appears to be nothing we can do to stop this change. I’m locked in unil Sept 2019, unless I want to take the hit of £50 per fuel early exit charges.
So my plan now is a below, and apologies if others also have a similar plan and I’m drawing attention to this potential tactic. If you think it unwise to voice this plan on here, please say so and I will remove the below statement.
As my account is in credit to the sum of a little more than my new ‘Winter’ DD amount, if I cancel my DD payment a few days before its due to be taken, the bill amount will come off my credit. So the bill will be paid and my account will not be in debit, and there should be no issues there. They may email me to demand this £25 DD cancelling charge, which if course I do not wish to pay, but at least I will still have this months payment in my bank account - which essentialy is like getting my credit back as a refund, which I can then split out across the winter months to balance the higher bill costs.
The only issues I can see with this is that rather than leaving the account as it is until next months DD payment, will OFTM continue to try to reinstate this months DD until it is taken and if so, even if im keeping a twice daily check for any new DD’s being reinstated, will they then try to charge me £25 every time I cancel their reinstated DD’s?
Please voice any thoughts on the above, thanks:beer:0 -
I hade the same thing with Fischer Energy, one email telling about the winter "uplift" then another increasing the amounts bu 20%.
They were very offhand when i contacted tham saying thats the way it was going to be in the future, and that I was free to find anoither supplier, despite that I had a £300+ credit balance
So I did just that and use the MSE switching service.
this just kind of thing hard up families dont need just before christmas0 -
BS they were trying to see how much they could screw out of customers without a mass exodus! I have started my move away from these cowboys. They don't deserve my custom if they can charge us a winter and summer DDOFTM has made the pages of BBC News website - under the Business tab
Headline - Energy company apologises for bill mix up
By Dan Whitworth, Money Box reporter
In it CEO Keith Bastian says;
"It is regrettable that incorrect information was given to our valued customers and for that we are sorry."Someone please tell me what money is0
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