Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

toshi

I emailed to [EMAIL="mr@outfoxthemarket.co.uk"]mr@outfoxthemarket.co.uk[/EMAIL] on 19/11, explained my take follwing their instruction. (meter readings with photo etc)

1) We have already credit of more than 1 month
2) Your DD new estimation is much higher than your own original estimation.
3) I worked out my own figure for DD (I personally am not against higher winter charge as I have joined to Outfox recently)

I have sent the actual 18 months usage graph at Iresa. (see the below)

On 22/11 I have got a reply: 22nd November Notification. The new revised Direct Debit is VERY reasonable. I also found that the latest estimation matches more or less the exact usage.

So if you do explain properly with solid figures, they would revise your DD figure very reasonably.

************
To ex-Iresa customer

I also did copy and paste the usage graph supplied by Iresa when I emailed them. I am wondering this would help this revision. (You can access to Iresa website

https://selfservice.iresa.co.uk/selfServicePortal/energyconsumption

jinkssick

dprice8893 wrote: »

That's the revised DD. They originally wanted to up it to £110 pm.


I know there prices are very competitive, but with most of their customers being fairly switch savvy, as soon as the situation changes, they might find there's a mass exodus.

This exactly. I am only staying put coz they are the cheapest as soon as that changes I will be gone in a flash, no exit fee here.

jinkssick

jaybeetoo wrote: »

MSE don’t have a crystal ball.

i agree like the Ice savings account that became a huge tarnish on Martin legacy. How was he to know Iceland entire structure collapse and people lost a hell of a lot of money! did they ever receive it? I think I had a put a £1 in it.

BedrockFred

jinkssick wrote: »

This exactly. I am only staying put coz they are the cheapest as soon as that changes I will be gone in a flash, no exit fee here.

Only pence cheaper than a quite a few other suppliers given the price rise in December


The amount of customers switching away will they be able sustain their model

geoffplus

OFTM has made the pages of BBC News website - under the Business tab

Headline - Energy company apologises for bill mix up

By Dan Whitworth, Money Box reporter

In it CEO Keith Bastian says;
"It is regrettable that incorrect information was given to our valued customers and for that we are sorry."

daveyjp

"It is regrettable we got found out, but when you need the cash you have to try all the tricks in the book".

shaftthemarket

"Only pence cheaper than a quite a few other suppliers given the price rise in December" - very true, yet time and again the rationale given here for staying with OTC is that they are the cheapest. They are not.

I have just re-run my Cheap Energy Club comparison ("Helping you get no-hassle, CONSTANTLY cheap gas & electricity") (ha ha, very funny). Headline result is there are at least six suppliers who are cheaper than OTC. The comparison is flawed - it's stuck on the pre-December OTC rates, and so the baseline for comparison is wrong, but it does think (correctly) I am in the process of switching, but doesn't use those rates either. Nonetheless it gives a ranked list of suppliers, including OTC at their new December rates, in position 7.

There's an awful lot of diabolical claptrap talked about markets kicked off by that Smith chappie and lobbed around by free marketeers ever since, with those in favour of free markets tending to be those who are also in favour of making a lot of money for themselves out of markets, free or otherwise. But to even stand the slightest chance of being efficient (as in both sides get a reasonable deal) amongst other things a market needs:

(a) both sides coming to the table as evenly matched as possible in strengths and weakness (the level playing field) - this fails in the energy market because of DDs - as we have seen, suppliers can set prices and grab money as and when they see fit (and Ofgem of course 'encourage' them to do it - but then don't get me started on Ofgem - a waste of space if ever there was one). Put the other way round, if one party to the bargain has significant strengths over and above the other party, then the stronger party will arrange things to their benefit.

(b) information has to be available and used. This is where the flat earth question arises: when all the evidence shows that OTC are not the cheapest and are arguably the most visibly incompetent and hassle prone supplier, why do folk ignore the evidence and continue to chant OTC are the cheapest?

(c) for the market to 'work', punters have to be active, ie act on the information. By staying put with OTC when they are not the cheapest, and their service is on a par with a Ryan Air flight to Hell and back, the die-hards are defeating they very market forces that are supposed to deal with rogue suppliers.

(d) you can take the argument even further by pointing out that in addition to the hassle of the last month, the chaos that ensues when a supplier goes belly up is extraordinarily inefficient, not to mention the unpleasantness for both the supplied and the ordinary staff in the supplying company.

(e) the only possible counter argument I have ever come across is that markets are the least bad method of all those that have been tried (to paraphrase a phrase that may or may not have originated with WSC) but frankly I don't buy that - some markets have to be managed.

All of which is really to point out a particular example of the general case that markets don't work for things like health and utilities.

PS: necessary caveat: I do of course accept my comparison applies to me alone, and there may be some for whom OTC will rank better, but by the same token I can be reasonably sure there will also be others where they rank worse.

headlight1

My actual annual usage is 25% less than OTM"s original estimate when I joined them 6 months ago even though I gave them my previous years actual usage figures so I am nearly £400 in credit.
They want to increase my next 6 DD"s by £360 by increasing them by £60 from £120 per month to £180.
I have already paid that extra £360 as I am already over £360 in credit.
They say that it is to cover my increased winter usage ?
All that will happen is that at the end of the 6 months I will still be at least the best part of£400 in credit & probably more.
My DD will then drop to £80 per month which is still more than I use as in the last 6 months I have used £360 so 6 months at £80 per month is £480 so I will be another £120 in credit on top of my credit.
By this time next year I will probably be £600-£700 in credit which will mean that based on my current tariff prices I will be 7-8 months in credit compared to my actual usage should I switch to a company that charges 12 equal DD"s, obviously at my present rate.
They say they are introducing this system as it as a fair way for us to pay for what we actually use, well no it is not !
My credit amount is just going up & up as I am paying for a lot more than I use every month of the year.
I am on a fixed tariff until the end of October 2019 so this DD hike has nothing to do with my prices going up.
How much do OTM want me to be in credit with them ?
If it weren"t for the fact that I firmly believe that they are doing this because they are in serious financial trouble (why else would they introduce such an unfair system with the obvious backlash it would cause unless they were in trouble) I would treat it as saving, although with no interest for me in the knowledge that come next October I could switch to another provider taking a large credit balance with me.
However I suspect that within the next 2 months OTM will go bust & I am concerned that I will lose my credit with them.

System

headlight1 wrote: »

However I suspect that within the next 2 months OTM will go bust & I am concerned that I will lose my credit with them.

As of October 2016, when Ofgem introduced what they call their Safety Net (but what most people now call the Consumer Levy), all consumer credit balances are now 100% protected in the event of a supplier going bust. The cost of supplier failures - of which there have been 7 so far this year - is now an added cost on all our energy bills.

headlight1

@Hengus, well that is good to know but what OTM is doing still stinks.
I have built up more than enough credit to cover any extra winter usage & yet they still want even more money off me.
I would imagine that at this time of the year most of their customers are in credit so OTM should have money but I believe they are broke as I can"t see any other reason for them to risk doing this & the reasons they are giving, that it is fairer & better just don"t stack up.
I have to pay a £100 exit fee but I am seriously considering doing that as I just can"t trust OTM anymore.