Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

headlight1

I just don"t see that this debacle by OTM is anything but a desperate attempt to raise money.
I am in credit (built up over the summer months) by more than enough to cover any extra winter usage so there is no need to hike my monthly payments as my DD set up is working exactly as it should do.

editor1

All I can say about OFTM is that they certainly know how to shoot themselves in the foot and the DD debacle does not instil confidence - that its just about regulated gives some comfort and knowing that the folks Account, which is in credit, is protected helps somewhat.

As with others, have had several emails from OFTM about DD changes, the last being the semi-climbdown email on 23rd of November, which means they now intend to remove £190 a month for peak usage, down from £148, but far higher than the £85 a month DD we actually contracted for in March. Effectively, total annual expenditure is back to square one with our low months payment being £51.

At this juncture in time for the folks our 18 month 'fixed' deal with OFTM remains the actual cheapest based on their real annual usage - my father burns through electricity in the Winter months, this caused by BG abandoning actual gas powered fires and installing pretend 'coal' fires instead powered by a 2KW fan heater, which my mother hates, she also hated losing her large water tank, so for us a move presently does not make economic sense given the charges First utility and OVO wish to inflict on us - of course there are cheaper alternatives, hence our Switch to OFTM in March.

Will see how this plays out, but hopefully my folks will get the better of it, unless forced to moved by more crass stupidity or insolvency of the business, in which case we need to look at the Regulator and the bloody government - personally speaking I'd prefer all utilities be State owned and run by professionals and not clowns.

Londoner_1

Outfox in the news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46317795

editor1

Sounds ominous, had not realised several businesses have already gone to the wall. Again, I think this is a government/regulator issue as these businesses have entered a market effectively undercapitalised - just hope OFTM don't go bust until September next year, when our 18 month fix expires.

headlight1

Sorry to say this editor1 but I would bet on OTM going bust by the end of January.
This debacle can be nothing more than a desperate attempt to raise cash & it hasn"t worked.
In fact it has had the opposite effect as I would guess that more customers have left them because of it than any extra cash they will generate from the hiked winter DD"s.
From the posts I have read on this site, OTM"s FB page & the other thread running on here nearly every customer has said that they are in credit by several hundred pounds.
OTM"s own figures say they have 100,000 customers so if each customer was only in credit by £100 pounds that would be a total credit OTM should be holding of 10 million pounds (most people seem to be more in credit than just £100 so the figure should be even greater) to cover extra winter usage.
Where is this money if OTM need to hike our winter bills & if the vast majority are in credit several hundred pounds why do they need to hike our winter bills as we have already paid/ they have already collected the money to cover the winter extra usage.
It sounds very very worrying to me.
I am the best part of £400 in credit & am staying with OTM as them going bust seems to be the most secure way to ensure that I end up getting my credit back.
If I switch & they then go bust before reimbursing me it seems likely I would lose the money as OFGEM only protect customers when an energy company goes bust & I would no longer be a customer when they folded.

wavelets

headlight1 wrote: »

Sorry to say this editor1 but I would bet on OTM going bust by the end of January.
This debacle can be nothing more than a desperate attempt to raise cash & it hasn"t worked.
In fact it has had the opposite effect as I would guess that more customers have left them because of it than any extra cash they will generate from the hiked winter DD"s.
From the posts I have read on this site, OTM"s FB page & the other thread running on here nearly every customer has said that they are in credit by several hundred pounds.
OTM"s own figures say they have 100,000 customers so if each customer was only in credit by £100 pounds that would be a total credit OTM should be holding of 10 million pounds (most people seem to be more in credit than just £100 so the figure should be even greater) to cover extra winter usage.
Where is this money if OTM need to hike our winter bills & if the vast majority are in credit several hundred pounds why do they need to hike our winter bills as we have already paid/ they have already collected the money to cover the winter extra usage.
It sounds very very worrying to me.
I am the best part of £400 in credit & am staying with OTM as them going bust seems to be the most secure way to ensure that I end up getting my credit back.
If I switch & they then go bust before reimbursing me it seems likely I would lose the money as OFGEM only protect customers when an energy company goes bust & I would no longer be a customer when they folded.

Your understanding is significantly flawed in all respects.

Why have you lent, and continue to lend, over £400 to anyoone you think is going bust before the end of January???:eek:

Under the Ofgem SoLR process, a newly appointed supplier in the event of a supplier going bust is responsible for ALL credit of that old supplier owed to thir domestic customers, past & present

headlight1

"Why have you lent, and continue to lend, over £400 to anyone you think is going bust before the end of January???"
I have not "lent" any money to OTM, they have taken my DD"s every month for the past 6 months resulting in me being credit.
I have asked for a refund but they will only refund me £40 of my credit, £400 less 2 of the "uplifted" payments which they are putting up to £180 which they say they must hold.
I do not have any access to the credit of mine that they hold.
I am on a fixed 18 month tariff which would cost me £100 to leave.
My understanding of the OFGEM regs is that if you are a customer of an energy company when they go bust then you will definitely get your credit back via the government, if however you are no longer a customer & the company goes bust you "should" get your credit back.
Maybe my understanding is incorrect & you are right but what do you suggest I do ?

wavelets

headlight1 wrote: »

"Why have you lent, and continue to lend, over £400 to anyone you think is going bust before the end of January???"
I have not "lent" any money to OTM, they have taken my DD"s every month for the past 6 months resulting in me being credit.
I have asked for a refund but they will only refund me £40 of my credit, £400 less 2 of the "uplifted" payments which they are putting up to £180 which they say they must hold.
I do not have any access to the credit of mine that they hold.
I am on a fixed 18 month tariff which would cost me £100 to leave.
My understanding of the OFGEM regs is that if you are a customer of an energy company when they go bust then you will definitely get your credit back via the government, if however you are no longer a customer & the company goes bust you "should" get your credit back.
Maybe my understanding is incorrect & you are right but what do you suggest I do ?

My suggestion is that you follow the suggestion given by OFTM that you contact them to discuss either the amount of credit they hold (i.e the money you have lent them, via the agreed payments they have collected via DD) or to discuss the level of those DD payments in light of the credit they already hold.

There's also a useful MSE article about this here:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits/
(it covers the level of direct debits, but you will have to allow for the sculpting of those collections that OFTM now will use for winter/summer collections)

If you think the organisation is about to go bust, I would recommend you (a) get your money back now and (b) ditch & switch.

Don't rely on third party bail-outs, just as bank customers don't when they think their bank was going bust.

If the supplier goes bust, your 18m fixed contract will mean nothing. At a time of rising prices, get a supplier today that you feel will still be around in 18m time, let alone in in just 2m time!
The prices available in 2m time may be significantly higher than they are today if the current trend continues.

If you do ditch and switch today, at least you now seem to understand the same bail out provisions will apply to any credit a failed supplier held, whether you were an ongoing customer at the time they failed or not.

wavelets

headlight1 wrote: »

...
I have built up more than enough credit to cover any extra winter usage & yet they still want even more money off me.....

Then contact the supplier
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits/

This is actually what the supplier recommended in their radio broadcast, and confirmed that where customers do, each case is reviewed on an that individual case.

The supplier has also confirmed that where such a complaint is upheld, the supplier either refunds the accrued credit, reduces the DD amount (or possibly a combination of both).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5928817/oftm-on-radio-4-noon

headlight1

"My suggestion is that you follow the suggestion given by OFTM that you contact them to discuss either the amount of credit they hold (i.e the money you have lent them, via the agreed payments they have collected via DD) or to discuss the level of those DD payments in light of the credit they already hold."

I have done exactly that.
As regards a refund OTM say that I can either have £40 refunded to me or they can spread that £40 over my remaining 12 payments reducing each payment by £3.33.
As far as the level of my past DD"s (resulting in a large credit) & proposed DD hike they will not budge & say the hike is happening & that it is the fairest way to ensure that customers pay for their usage.
Have you had any dealings with OTM yourself wavelets as my experience is that it is like banging your head against a brick wall, there is no reasoning with them
Also is there any way I can avoid the £100 exit fee.