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I've been quotedApparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.
£200.28 Price includes Protected no claim discount (NCD) by LV for my 64kWh Hyundai Kona.The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
Oliver Wendell Holmes0 -
Rather silly for any driver to make assumptions about what his/her insurance quotes are going to be like !I would guess that non BEV owners assume the extra cost of the battery will push insurance up and that's just not the case.
There are so many minor differences that can make a huge difference to the final premium and so many different insurance companies that have different policies on any or all of those factors that there's no substitute for getting quotes. There are several comparison sites that you could use and if you haven't yet got the car you'd need to insure, just pop along to a dealer's and make a note of the registration number of any likely contender(s)NE Derbyshire.4kWp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).24kWh of Pylontech batteries with Lux controller BEV : Hyundai Ioniq50 -
Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.
Just had a quote from LV= for a new Nissan Leaf 40kwh N-Connecta 8k miles a year, me (one SP30) and wife with 9 years NCD: £176.76
One of the benefits of living in Lincolnshire, I suppose.Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)0 -
Some BEV van news, and a personal note, vans are a great market for electrification, as many won't do a lot of miles per day, and will face a lot of stop and go driving.
New Era: Fully Electric Mercedes-Benz eSprinter Goes Into Production
And putting aside any fanboi Tesla issues here, the takeaway for me on this article, is that the demand for BEV's is there, it's the supply that's needed now.
Tesla Model 3 = 21% of Small + Midsize Premium Car Sales in USA — CleanTechnica ReportThe Tesla Model 3 continues to dominate the US premium-class car market. In fact, it has dominated this market to such an extent that it has more sales in 2019 than all of BMW’s small & midsize models combined, all of Mercedes-Benz’s small & midsized models combined, all of Audi’s small & midsized models combined, all of Lexus’s small & midsized models combined, etc.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.
Well, I'd expect to pay more than on my current car. It is 10 years old and worth a lot less than £2k though!
On the subject of vans I think there's a wide range of requirements. Local deliveries, the final step to customer's doors in more urban areas certainly. Local plumber who doesn't venture far abroad likewise.
But then you have people like my GF with her own small security company who has clients all over the county (and occasionally further) and may well do an installation and then rush off to a call out. Were she to get an electric van it would definitely need a longer range than the ones I've had a brief look at.0 -
You make it sound like serving an ICE is going to bankrupt me. ICE serving costs are reasonable because well do I need to prove anything other than saying there are a billion ICE cars in the road?
No, I'm referring to you looking at hybrids. I made a tongue in cheek point that you would be servicing BOTH an ICE AND and EV if you buy a hybrid. You seem to doubt peoples' claims about EVs being cheap to service in post #129.I don't think you quite understand
The grid getting more green doesn't mean cars get more green
I do understand. And that's exactly what I mean. As a whole, usage and production, Fossil % and Renewable %. I never, ever said that charging a car plugs you directly into a wind turbine. We're including peoples' solar panels in the grid, aren't we?because you can't just throw more wind on the turbine
Of course. But what if there are more, better wind turbines this year, than last? What if we add more next year? Assuming usage stays the same, the % Renewable goes up - the car (fuel) gets greener. Argue the finer points of this if you want, but your petrol or diesel is one use and up in smoke with no recovery.The bit you don't seem to get is that while we will indeed deploy more wind power the UK isn't expected to be marginal green in any significant number of hours anytime over the next decade.
You're the only one using the marginal word.How much co2/km do you propose a typical BEV emmits in the uk?
'typical'. Which one? What size is it? How many miles does it do? I don't know the answer by the way, you came up with a figure of 75g/100km for a Model 3 in the UK and I haven't argued against that. My EV certainly doesn't do 100km per day.
Buglawton:Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.
Hear that down the pub, did you? My 2 EVs have been comparable to ICE to insure, and I live in NI where we're used to being ripped off for insurance. Thanks for bringing it up though, seems to have been debunked by plenty on the forum here so tell your mates down the pub they're talking rubbish.0 -
I'm reading a lot about co2 in these threads but what about exhaust pollution once the cars are on the road ?
https://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/news/2018/0606.html
"A new Oxford University collaboration has shed light on the damaging health consequences of Britain’s car addiction – revealing that it is likely costing our NHS and society in general more than £6 billion per year."
ICE = sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen gas, VOC's
BEV = 0Scott in Fife, 2.9kwp pv SSW facing, 2.7kw Fronius inverter installed Jan 2012 - 14.3kwh Seplos Mason battery storage with Lux ac controller - Renault Zoe 40kwh, Corsa-e 50kwh, Zappi EV charger and Octopus Go0 -
I'm reading a lot about co2 in these threads but what about exhaust pollution once the cars are on the road ?
https://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/news/2018/0606.html
"A new Oxford University collaboration has shed light on the damaging health consequences of Britain’s car addiction – revealing that it is likely costing our NHS and society in general more than £6 billion per year."
ICE = sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen gas, VOC's
BEV = 0
This is a very important issue, and I did post an article a couple of days ago, but on the Green Energy thread as it wasn't just about BEV's:Martyn1981 wrote: »Sometimes it's worth remembering that it's not just CO2 emissions we can reduce with RE and BEV's, it's also air pollution that can be improved/reduced.
Experts raise new fears about killer air pollution in UKThe UK’s failure to meet World Health Organisation standards limiting the amount of ultra-fine particles in the air represents a major danger to health that is only now being recognised, experts claim.
Studies published this year link the particles to cancers, lung and heart disease, adverse effects on foetal development, and poor lung and brain development in children. They are considered a key threat to health because they go deep into the lungs and then reach other organs, including the brain. But European standards allow the levels of particles in the air to be 2.5 times higher than those stipulated by the WHO.
Professor Annette Peters, director of the Institute of Epidemiology at the Helmholtz Zentrum, Munich, said Europe – and the UK – urgently needs to introduce tougher standards. She said: “Particles are a major and invisible danger to our health, especially in London and our big cities.
The US has a standard of 12 micrograms of ultra-fine particles per cubic metre, while the WHO standard is 10 micrograms.
“We [the UK and EU’s limits] are currently at 25 micrograms per cubic metre – double the US standards,” said Peters, who warned that scientific evidence confirming the threat they pose to human health “has really strengthened this year”.
“We initially had evidence of the effect on the lungs and heart, but now we also have evidence that it alters the metabolism as well as impacting the brain.”
Vehicle emissions are predominantly to blame, but domestic heating systems and industrial pollutants are also factors. “Recent studies from London and our work in a medium-sized community in southern Germany show there really is evidence that the ultra-fine particles go beyond the lungs,” Peters said.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Of course. But what if there are more, better wind turbines this year, than last? What if we add more next year? Assuming usage stays the same, the % Renewable goes up - the car (fuel) gets greener.
I've tried to explain to you why this isn't the case in the UK or most of the world's grids.
If you plug into a supercharger and pull 250KW from the grid you are charging from whichever power station adds 250KW to the grid to match your demand. In the UK for 2019 some 98% of the time this will be a CCGT the other 2% of the time it's wind power
Adding more wind power doesn't change this fact for a long time at least in part due to the fact the UK is closing half its nukes in 2023/4 and as such the wind deployed over the next 4 years roughly covers the lost nuclear output.
The while period of the 2020s the UK will be largely marginal CCGT not wind
Even in 2029 the last year of the 2020s the UK will predominately be marginal green
When you plug in a BEV in 2029 and it pulls 250KW from the grid some 95% of the time it's going to be a CCGT that steps in to provide the energy. Some 5% of the time it will be a wind turbine that is being curtailed but plugging in the EV will mean it's not curtailed.
As such expect a BEV to get only about 5% cleaner over the next ten years.
More or less insignificant to the debate
Your argument BTW would be valid in grids which are already predominantly marginal green like France or Norway. But not valid in the UK or the world's big grids like China USA Japan Indian Russia Germany etc
Also I've done another more accurate thread on this
For a typical driver a hybrid is about 106g/km a model 3 is 95g/km and an e golf 107g/km in a gas grid. In a coal grid the EVs are far worse on emmissions of co20 -
I'm reading a lot about co2 in these threads but what about exhaust pollution once the cars are on the road ?
https://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/news/2018/0606.html
"A new Oxford University collaboration has shed light on the damaging health consequences of Britain’s car addiction – revealing that it is likely costing our NHS and society in general more than £6 billion per year."
ICE = sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen gas, VOC's
BEV = 0
When did nitrogen gas become a pollutant? :rotfl:
BEVs are not zero on other pollutants as CCGTs that power them also produce nitrous oxides
Most the world's big grids are coal heavy or significant coal for marginal generation these include China USA Germany Russia Japan Indonesia India...well pretty much everyone so the BEVs also emmit everything a coal plant emmits
As for the health cost of emmissions from modern cars at £6 billion that's great news, but we must first nationise royal mail because the private royal mail keeps losing my citizen dividend cheque from all the health and £££ savings we've made from closing the UK coal stations.
Going to BEVs will save the NHS as much as closing the UK coal plants did....a figure so low it doesn't even show up0
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