Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

GreatApe

Martyn1981 wrote: »

This is a very important issue,:

Where are all the health benefits and money saving you promised me if we closed the UK coal stations??

:rotfl:

EVandPV

GreatApe wrote: »

When did nitrogen gas become a pollutant? :rotfl:

Here you go ..... https://www.epa.gov/no2-pollution :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

My post was about exhaust pollution, you know, from when a car is actually being driven !
Now, how much from a BEV ?? Oh wait, there is no exhaust ! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

JKenH

GreatApe wrote: »

Small BEVs don't make sense because they would be competing against the cheapest ICE cars and be targeting price sensitive customers

That’s a bit of a generalisation. A lot of small BEVs will be second or even third cars bought by people who want a runabout for short journeys where range is not an issue. That sector of the market is perhaps less price sensitive. The people who are going to be buying the latest crop of small BEVs due to come on the market next year from the likes of VAG are not the same people who are looking at a £2k Ford Focus family car.

ICEs don’t make sense for short journeys as the engines never get up to temperature so are high on emissions and low on fuel efficiency and suffer more wear. The cats don’t get up to temperature so they are more polluting when used on short journeys. BEVs are also much better to drive in town.

Small BEVs make a lot of sense to folk like me.

EVandPV

JKenH wrote: »

Small BEVs make a lot of sense to folk like me.

Absolutely, the regen from town driving helps the smaller battery go a lot further.
For as little as £6k, you can pick up a used 22kwh Zoe which makes an ideal town car.

ABrass

EV batteries degrade based primarily on heat and fast charging, with age and number of miles as much smaller factors.

In developing the tool, GeoTab found that the the two biggest factors affecting the life of EV batteries are battery cooling and frequent high power DC charging. Age and number of miles driven are far less important to how long a battery lasts

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/16/new-data-shows-heat-fast-charging-responsible-for-more-battery-degradation-than-age-or-mileage/

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

That’s a bit of a generalisation. A lot of small BEVs will be second or even third cars bought by people who want a runabout for short journeys where range is not an issue. That sector of the market is perhaps less price sensitive. The people who are going to be buying the latest crop of small BEVs due to come on the market next year from the likes of VAG are not the same people who are looking at a £2k Ford Focus family car.

ICEs don’t make sense for short journeys as the engines never get up to temperature so are high on emissions and low on fuel efficiency and suffer more wear. The cats don’t get up to temperature so they are more polluting when used on short journeys. BEVs are also much better to drive in town.

Small BEVs make a lot of sense to folk like me.

I understand the pros of electric cars and at the same price for a 100 mile range small BEV they make more sense than an ICE. For any useage a BEV makes more sense than an ICE if the range is acceptable for your useage (again assuming the same price point) and the aim is to save tax

However they aren't the same price point
So you need to consider if the higher price is worth it and looking at sales the answer seems to be no for most people

Ford fiesta no subsidy from the government and is the best selling car in the UK
How many units does the Zoe sell per year and that gets a £3,500 grant and a £500 grant for the charger and pays no fuel taxes.

Also the problems you cite re ICE useage in urban areas are very minor
A small cheap urban ICE doing 5,000 miles a year only needs £50 fuel a month
Costs £8-15k depending on make and model and will last 15 years


So I'm not disagreeing with you
Small ICE at the same price point in urban (or rural) areas make more sense
But at a price differential of £5-10k over their twin models people won't buy them in significant quantities

GreatApe

EVandPV wrote: »

Absolutely, the regen from town driving helps the smaller battery go a lot further.

It's not because of regen (regen is below 100% efficiency so is actually a net loss) it's because of the slower speeds resulting in less energy lost to air drag. Drive at 30moh on the motorway (or any open road for that matter) and you'll get more miles per kWh than at 70mph

For as little as £6k, you can pick up a used 22kwh Zoe which makes an ideal town car.

You need to look at new build sales as it's a discussion about one tech over taking another not if a used car in limited numbers out in the wild night be good or bad for a very limited number of people

GreatApe

EVandPV wrote: »

Here you go ..... https://www.epa.gov/no2-pollution :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

My post was about exhaust pollution, you know, from when a car is actually being driven !
Now, how much from a BEV ?? Oh wait, there is no exhaust ! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Nitrogen dioxide NO2 is not nitrogen gas N2 the latter is very inert in normal conditions and air is in fact about 80% nitrogen gas

EVandPV

GreatApe wrote: »

Nitrogen dioxide NO2 is not nitrogen gas N2 the latter is very inert in normal conditions and air is in fact about 80% nitrogen gas

https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/publications/factsheet-nitrogen-dioxide-no2

"What is nitrogen dioxide?
Nitrogen dioxide is a nasty-smelling gas. Some nitrogen dioxide is formed naturally in the atmosphere by lightning and some is produced by plants, soil and water. However, only about 1% of the total amount of nitrogen dioxide found in our cities' air is formed this way.

Nitrogen dioxide is an important air pollutant because it contributes to the formation of photochemical smog, which can have significant impacts on human health.

The major source of nitrogen dioxide in Australia is the burning of fossil fuels: coal, oil and gas. Most of the nitrogen dioxide in cities comes from motor vehicle exhaust (about 80%). Other sources of nitrogen dioxide are petrol and metal refining, electricity generation from coal-fired power stations, other manufacturing industries and food processing."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28245-nitrogen-oxide-is-not-so-harmless-and-could-damage-human-health/


"In the UK, a document published earlier this month by the government as part of a plan to reduce NOx concentrations estimated that the gases kill up to 23,500 UK citizens prematurely each year."

EricMears

NOx products result from burning anything in air. You wouldn't get them (or certainly not as much since some fuels might have a N content) if you burnt with pure Oxygen. Not of course that I'm seriously suggesting that ICEVs ought to have an Oxygen tank added !