Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

EVandPV

ABrass wrote: »

Half the problem with EVs is the low numbers they're built in.

Good news for anyone waiting on an e-Niro ......

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-e-niro-extra-supply-upgraded-ev-2020

ABrass

EVandPV wrote: »

Good news for anyone waiting on an e-Niro ......

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-e-niro-extra-supply-upgraded-ev-2020

Kind of demonstrates my point about volumes. 3,000 on the waiting list and they'll be delivered in the first half a year? That implies 6,000 supply for the UK for the year and a wait of over 6 months for any new orders.

EVs across the board are supply limited.

EVandPV

ABrass wrote: »

Kind of demonstrates my point about volumes. 3,000 on the waiting list and they'll be delivered in the first half a year? That implies 6,000 supply for the UK for the year and a wait of over 6 months for any new orders.

EVs across the board are supply limited.

True, but a big improvement on the previous waiting time of a year.

GreatApe

ABrass wrote: »

EV batteries scale down nicely whilst petrol engines will always have a hard floor cost because of the emission control hardware.

Regulations move slowly and banning ICE cars directly or indirectly will just result in old cars being kept on the road a lot longer. What's is certain is even if governments want to ban ICE they won't do it any quicker than non ICE capacity can ramp up and that is limited

in a few years the prices will flip

This is too vague
My view is everything will be free within 30 years so sure BEVs will be as cheap
Talking about 5 heads from now I don't see it happening

ICE powertrain is cheaper than most of you realise perhaps only £1-3k for typical small mid cars.
We are nowhere near close to prices of £1.5-3k for a 50KWh battery pack plus power electronics plus thermal control plus electric motor plus a stronger heavier frame to hold all this extra mass nowhere close to £1.5-3k for all of that

I don't know why people are blind to reality
Toyota $23k average sell price profitable company
Tesla closer to $50k average sell price and still loss making for full 2019
Maybe BEVs will take over but we aren't close

Plus there is no real pressing need or benefit to BEVs compared to Hybrids
Their emmissions savings are very minor (about 10% in the UK) or much worse (about +40% in coal marginal grids like Germany China Many parts of USA) Vs a hybrid ICE

buglawton

Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.

EVandPV

buglawton wrote: »

Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.

Nope, paid £240 fully comp for my Zoe compared to £290 for my Kia Rio last year.
Probably would have been about the same had I needed breakdown cover with the Zoe.
I've heard of people getting a quote around £200 for a second hand Zoe.

EricMears

buglawton wrote: »

Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.

As ever, insurance costs vary tremendously - shopping around usually gets a better deal.

As it happens, I've just been through the process for my two cars - a Volvo V50 (diesel) & a Nissan Leaf (BEV). Lowest quote for V50 was £203 and Leaf was £320 but that's not 'like for like', Nissan quote was for 12,000 mls/y V50 was for 3000 so I'd suggest with similar mileages prices would be pretty close.

At the same time, I compared my son's premia for his Seat Ibiza (petrol) and what it would cost if he swapped it for my Leaf. In each case mileage was 15000mls/y. Lowest Ibiza quote was for £437, Leaf: £559. So yes, there was a 'hike' but I wouldn't describe £120 (or 25%) as 'eye watering' and I'd suggest most of the difference was related to higher performance of the Leaf and his relative youth.

I repeat : shopping around usually gets a better deal.

Martyn1981

buglawton wrote: »

Apparently insurance costs on BEVs are eye watering. Paying around £250 fully comp on my ICE, I'd expect that to double on a BEV.

Nope. Our Leaf insurance was slightly cheaper than the Zafira (both approx £240), despite being worth 3x as much.

On various sites, boards and threads I've also noticed a strong split between those that believe insurance is high, or not, and it seems to be split according to ICE or BEV ownership. [Edit - apologies, I should have said ownership and or awareness, as there are loads of people without BEV's who are well informed, and hopefully this number is growing every day. M.]

Martyn1981

Porsche Taycan only ~2 miles/kWh. That's quite an achievement!!!

Tesla Model S Has Almost Twice The EPA Range Of Porsche Taycan — 373 Miles vs 201 Miles

The Taycan does have undoubted strengths in the “driver’s car” feel that Porsche prides itself on, and that’s welcome. But, with just 201 miles of EPA range from a 93.4 kWh battery, the overall efficiency of the powertrain is undoubtedly disappointing and this will need to improve dramatically to become a compelling all-round vehicle. After all, that’s what Porsche’s EVs must ultimately become in the long run.

That's also a knock to their charging rates, in terms of miles added.

EVandPV

Martyn1981 wrote: »

On various sites, boards and threads I've also noticed a strong split between those that believe insurance is high, or not, and it seems to be split according to ICE or BEV ownership.

I would guess that non BEV owners assume the extra cost of the battery will push insurance up and that's just not the case.