Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 9:15 AM
    • 16Posts
    • 10Thanks
    thisisme2000
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting?
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:15 AM
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting? 12th Feb 19 at 9:15 AM
    Hi everyone,


    I'm a long term reader of the forum but haven't posted. I am sorry for this Is LONG!!


    I'm keen for another perspective on my situation, and given the situation I don't feel I can involve family or friends as they are likely to have a biased opinion.


    I'm married for over 7 years, 2 young children. We both work, myself earning around 36k and him about 37k.


    Since we bought our current home the mortgage is in my name (as he had an error on his credit file due to an issue with the last house - now resolved but wouldn't be in time for our house purchase) This was 2 years ago.
    I also pay the council tax, all of the kids clubs, buy all the kids clothes, I pay a personal loan for a large purchase we made together (I don't want to say what as I feel it may identify me - I know its a big world but I'm nervous re posting this). I take home approx. 1700 and my essential outgoings are around 1650 - doesn't leave me with much.
    He pays gas, electric and childcare - childcare is less than 200 per month, gas and electric - I don't know how much this is right now.


    In our previous home, the mortgage was joint named, my parents gave us a deposit, the bill came out of his account but I paid for the childcare (which was way more than the mortgage at the time as both were at a childminder). I always had to ask him for money before the month ran out and when I think about it now I started to become really low in mood around that time.


    Since moving again, I still have to ask him for money at the end of the month. I suggested several times that we should have a bills account and each pay a % of our salary (say50%) into this to cover it and some more for treats or saving etc. For some reason he has never been into the idea.


    I've found it harder and harder to ask him for money each month, so as a result I have been using my credit card, kidding myself on that everything was fine and under control. I have accumulated some debt, and when I gave myself a kick up the !!! and moved it to a 0% card and cut it up I took a hard look at my finances,( I have secured a new job which I will start soon , its a pay rise with significant benefits, so I will have more income to pay the card off quicker) - I am left with very little at the end of the month and forced to have to ask for "spendies".
    He has a personal loan, which he says was accumulated costs from when we last moved, and he took out another to clear it but didn't - he says he has been keeping it "just in case" - I am really not all that sure what this loan was really used for. He know tells me he has been keeping this money, just in case I messed up again (I had debt years ago but paid it off with an inheritance)


    I have told him about the credit card, saying that we need to split the household bills as I cant keep pretending that I have more money than I do, and I shouldn't have to ask for money from him, as I find it extremely hard to do this for whatever reason...


    His solution is that I should have my salary paid into his bank account as its the only way he can trust me again. I suggested again a joint account which we both agree a monthly budget for "free spending each" and the rest goes on the necessities or debt/savings. He says he would feel better if it was all in his account. He will transfer me an allowance weekly or monthly and he will control the rest.


    In my gut this feels very wrong, however I know I betrayed his trust by spending on my credit card and maybe this is the only way I will have his trust again.
    On the other hand, I am a grown woman who made a mistake, realised it and is rectifying it within my means - how am I expected to survive on such a small amount each month?


    Is this the punishment for messing up? should I just get on with it?


    A quick Google search tells me that anyone who demands you hand over your salary, doesn't pay half of the household bills, makes you ask for money but freely spends on themselves are portraying financial abuse, or at the very least bullying...? Maybe I am "catastrophising" I do know I have made mistakes.


    If your still reading - thanks!
    If you have time Id really appreciate an opinion
Page 2
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 12th Feb 19, 11:08 AM
    • 3,650 Posts
    • 13,150 Thanks
    paddy's mum
    I was thinking about this while doing the washing up and something occurred to me that you, OP, might want to consider.

    Your post is very much 'me,me,me' but not in the usual sense of that little saying.

    You ran up a (smallish?) amount of debt on YOUR credit card.

    You ran that up paying out for YOUR family's needs.

    You are paying it back out of YOUR salary.

    You are communicating YOUR situation.

    YOU are suggesting fair and reasonable ways forward.

    You are hitting a brick wall. Perhaps it's time that your husband had it made frighteningly clear to him that unless he works with you, he will in time be facing enormous financial scrutiny as part of an action for divorce when the burdens of inequality wear you down to the point that you cannot carry on.

    I also found myself fretting at your use of the word 'betrayal'. Somehow, that didn't sit right with me. In the grand scheme of things, exactly what betrayal have you committed that warrants you describing the current situation in such terms?

    Adultery? Massive financial shenanigans? Huge gambling debt? Domestic violence? Tissues of lies? Alcohol or drug abuse?

    No? So now look at the whole situation again and decide for yourself exactly where this so-called betrayal took place.

    Perhaps seeking the help of a relationship counsellor might be of value, even if only to be able to freely express your thoughts, resentments and fears.

    I wish you luck.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 11:15 AM
    • 6,978 Posts
    • 7,424 Thanks
    Comms69
    Comms - we have been married just over 7 yrs. - sorry I mean, are you a romantic couple, or are you simply married.

    I do need to see things from his point of view but it's hard when I can't get the info out of him.

    I think he prefers to be the person who is in charge of the "day to day spending" which he maybe is the only way to move forward. - perhaps. and that's fine if you're fine with it. Relationships arent about both doing the same thing, it's about both doing and it all getting done

    Having an agreement with a budget we both can follow then in principle I think this is a good idea, but I don't think this should be in an account I cannot access for the sake of principle - and what if something happens to him - and me and the kids can't access any money? - I agree with you. But that doesn't make him right or wrong.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by thisisme2000


    Ultimately there are cracks showing in your marriage and it's upto you both to decide where you compromise.
    • charlotte1994
    • By charlotte1994 12th Feb 19, 11:19 AM
    • 481 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    charlotte1994
    I'm concerned you earn 36,000/year, which is 3,000/month, but only take home 1,700. This is, quite simply, wrong, tax and national insurance on what you are should be hundreds less than that so unless you are paying an absolute fortune into a workplace pension (that you clearly can't afford to) your works payroll is making a colossal error with your earnings.

    The pair of you need to talk openly about money, all aspects of it, with all information on the table and reach an agreement which deals with your unsecured debts and is equitable to both. Your problem in your marriage seems to mostly be communication.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99

    I was thinking this OP, check your tax. I only earn 17k a year and bring home around 1,100. I know you will get taxed more than me but you should be bringing home a lot more than that!!
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 11:22 AM
    • 6,978 Posts
    • 7,424 Thanks
    Comms69
    I was thinking this OP, check your tax. I only earn 17k a year and bring home around 1,100. I know you will get taxed more than me but you should be bringing home a lot more than that!!
    Originally posted by charlotte1994


    You are both taxed at the same rate.
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 11:54 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    Paddy's mum - thanks for that perspective.

    I suppose I see it as a betrayal on my part as I didn't just ask him for help when I needed it - I was afraid of being judged for not making ends meet.

    I do at times tell myself as you say 'im not a cheater, or a criminal, or a substance user - so this is a stupid financial mistake and I'm only human please cut me some slack" but he says the only way we can move on is if he takes control - but what good does this do in the long run?

    I do find myself thinking - how much worse off would I really be if it was just me and the kids. ..?

    Commms - interesting question re the couple thing.. "are you "just married" ... We probably do fall into that category - we are rarely intimate.
    I said to him that I feel he is not easy to talk to and he is very shut down at times - that I feel he just doesn't want to talk to me most of the time - he looked very sheepish and didnt have much to say to be honest. I think I have become a nag.

    Maybe the end is nigh - this is the last thing that I want. We used to be so in tune with each other.

    Im really worried about how this is going to pan out.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 12:02 PM
    • 6,978 Posts
    • 7,424 Thanks
    Comms69
    Paddy's mum - thanks for that perspective.

    I suppose I see it as a betrayal on my part as I didn't just ask him for help when I needed it - I was afraid of being judged for not making ends meet.

    I do at times tell myself as you say 'im not a cheater, or a criminal, or a substance user - so this is a stupid financial mistake and I'm only human please cut me some slack" but he says the only way we can move on is if he takes control - but what good does this do in the long run?

    I do find myself thinking - how much worse off would I really be if it was just me and the kids. ..?

    Commms - interesting question re the couple thing.. "are you "just married" ... We probably do fall into that category - we are rarely intimate. - That's usually a good barometer of a relationship. And it doesn't have to be like when you first met. A romantic meal; a walk just the two of you; doing things for one another - stereotype but: him running you a bath and taking the kids out for few hours / you getting him some beers and letting him watch the match without being disturbed.


    Intimacy will return if you both start making the effort

    I said to him that I feel he is not easy to talk to and he is very shut down at times - that I feel he just doesn't want to talk to me most of the time - he looked very sheepish and didnt have much to say to be honest. I think I have become a nag. - it happens; all too often. Men tend to shut down when they aren't valued. Is him wanting to take ownership of the finances a cry to be more needed?

    Maybe the end is nigh - this is the last thing that I want. We used to be so in tune with each other. - only if you both give up

    Im really worried about how this is going to pan out.
    Originally posted by thisisme2000


    Instead of talking tonight. Why don't you get the kids to bed, have a nice dinner together and just enjoy each others company.


    No talk of money whatsoever.
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 12:04 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    That's a really nice idea 👍
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 12th Feb 19, 12:41 PM
    • 3,650 Posts
    • 13,150 Thanks
    paddy's mum
    Maybe the end is nigh - this is the last thing that I want. We used to be so in tune with each other.

    Im really worried about how this is going to pan out.
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    So talk, talk and then talk a lot more! None of you have anything to lose - except the marriage if you keep on failing to communicate, compromise and work together!
    • -taff
    • By -taff 12th Feb 19, 12:43 PM
    • 9,320 Posts
    • 10,570 Thanks
    -taff
    |SOunds odd. I'd be a bit worried [ok, a lot worried] if my OH said he wanted me to pay my money into his account. That's what a joint account is for.

    And I would be really bloody angry if he had brought up past debts, especially if you cleared them from your own money.
    I would also be worried about how much HE owes, because if you know he has a loan for this or that and is suggesting you pay money into his acount, sounds like he hasn't got a handle on his own finances.
    I wouldn't be setting up a joint account until I knew exactly where his money was going and how much he owed.



    One potential solution is for you to transfer all direct debit household bills to his account and pay him half the bills minus his half of bills that have to be paid in person, such as shopping or clothes etc
    Or divide the direct debits bewteen you so you both pay the same amount.
    Or get prepaid credit cards where you both put money on them for household bills regarding shopping etc.
    Last edited by -taff; 12-02-2019 at 12:45 PM.
    • hb2
    • By hb2 12th Feb 19, 12:51 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    hb2
    OP, you have raised one very clear problem with the idea of putting all your money into his account - what would you do if something happened to him? This does not need to be death, but accident or illness that renders him unable to manage his bank account.

    As for the rest - this does sound like evidence of a severe crack in your relationship. Only you know whether it is worth working to repair or whether the damage is too great.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 12th Feb 19, 1:02 PM
    • 1,205 Posts
    • 2,680 Thanks
    seashore22
    Comms69, do you have any experiences or knowledge of domestic abuse? I only ask because I find your replies quite simplistic and possibly naive.

    This may or may not be full blown financial abuse, but it is ringing a few alarm bells for me and obviously the op is worried too.

    OP, I don't want to say too much either about my indirect experience, but it sounds all too familiar. How is the rest of your marriage? Any other concerns?
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 12th Feb 19, 1:03 PM
    • 30,390 Posts
    • 77,994 Thanks
    Mojisola
    So talk, talk and then talk a lot more!
    Originally posted by paddy's mum
    That won't work if he won't talk!
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 12th Feb 19, 1:06 PM
    • 1,205 Posts
    • 2,680 Thanks
    seashore22
    You used your credit card rather than asking him for more money. This sends alarm bells ringing straight away.


    He also has loans that you aren't entirely surely what they paid for. More alarm bells.


    You need to insist that you both sit down and talk about money. And if he won't? For me, the alarm bells would be ringing so loud I would have to get out.


    You've read about Financial Abuse - so now that you know what Financial Abuse looks like, and you've compared it to your situation, what do you think is happening?


    Please don't kid yourself that it is punishment that is in any way justified. It's all about control. He wants it. And it's convenient for him if you think that the punishment is justified because it will make you more likely to put up with it. It isn't, and you shouldn't.



    And him wanting your salary paid into his account? No, No, No. Joint account, maybe.



    Please
    Originally posted by trailingspouse
    This is excellent advice.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 12th Feb 19, 1:09 PM
    • 588 Posts
    • 898 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    he says he would just feel better if it was all in his account and I could log in and see it.
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    And I'm sure you would feel better if you didn't have to go cap in hand to your husband because you are carrying most of the financial burden???

    He says he is worried ill just go nuts and spend a fortune...?
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    I'd be worried he's going nuts with your money as it sounds like he is already taking the mick.

    The only option IMH are separate accounts where you get your wages and transfer a equal amount to a joint account which is for household bills and child care only, don't have debit cards for that account, SO and Direct debits only. Each take grocery money out in cash at the start of the month (good way to budget anyway) and pop it into a separate wallet.

    Only thing that might be in your husbands defence is if he thinks you are suggesting just having a joint account / or doesn't understand you can have multiple bank accounts.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 1:10 PM
    • 6,978 Posts
    • 7,424 Thanks
    Comms69
    Comms69, do you have any experiences or knowledge of domestic abuse? I only ask because I find your replies quite simplistic and possibly naive.

    This may or may not be full blown financial abuse, but it is ringing a few alarm bells for me and obviously the op is worried too.

    OP, I don't want to say too much either about my indirect experience, but it sounds all too familiar. How is the rest of your marriage? Any other concerns?
    Originally posted by seashore22
    Yes plenty, thanks.

    Which replies bothered you so mich, be specific so we can debate this.
    • borkid
    • By borkid 12th Feb 19, 1:15 PM
    • 1,960 Posts
    • 4,049 Thanks
    borkid
    Comms - we have been married just over 7 yrs.

    I do need to see things from his point of view but it's hard when I can't get the info out of him.

    I think he prefers to be the person who is in charge of the "day to day spending" which he maybe is the only way to move forward.

    Having an agreement with a budget we both can follow then in principle I think this is a good idea, but I don't think this should be in an account I cannot access for the sake of principle - and what if something happens to him - and me and the kids can't access any money?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    Something similar happened to someone I knew her OH was rushed into hospital in a coma for a while. Her adult childen had to give her money because she had no access to the OH money and no joint accounts. They lived 100s of miles away.



    As OH and I have got older we now have nearly all joint accounts ( not ISAs and 1 saving account where he saves any of his spare money). Although we have joint accounts he runs the one his pension goes into and I run the one mine does but we both have access if needs be.
    • kazwookie
    • By kazwookie 12th Feb 19, 1:26 PM
    • 10,270 Posts
    • 126,419 Thanks
    kazwookie
    OP, I think he is controlling and sounds like a real pain in the a s s .

    Get him to talk, if he won't then I would be inclined to walk away from him and your marraige, he is covering things up, and IMO not being honest.

    But this is what I would do, only YOU can sort out what you would do.

    Good luck.
    Sun, Sea
    Slinky is back on!
    • Doodles
    • By Doodles 12th Feb 19, 1:33 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 461 Thanks
    Doodles
    I can feel how frustrated you are with this situation.

    I'm not so sure about financial abuse, but your marriage definitely has some issues, and finances are just one of them.

    You are on equal par with each other on earnings, so it's ridiculous (to me anyway) for him to suggest he control all the money. This is 2019 not 1969.

    What I don't understand (forgive me if I missed this) is you say he pays gas and electric. But what other bills such as water bill, tv licence, broadband, those sorts of jointly used bills?
    We are in Transylvania, and Transylvania is not England. Our ways are not your ways, and there shall be to you many strange things.

    Dracula, Bram Stoker
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 12th Feb 19, 1:39 PM
    • 1,205 Posts
    • 2,680 Thanks
    seashore22
    Yes plenty, thanks.

    Which replies bothered you so mich, be specific so we can debate this.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Sorry, not interested in intellectual debate. Too real right now.

    However it is pretty clear that the op's husband is controlling over money. Why else would he not want a joint account. He is also using past mistakes on the op's part to justify it. The op has also said that she has experienced low mood as a result of having to constantly ask for more money. Edit - these are red flags to me.

    The suggesting that she has a nice meal with her husband and not talk about money made me feel a bit sick, if I'm honest. Not because it's sugary, but because it's advice like this which makes women (and some men) put up with controlling partners long after they should have done something about it. The abused person thinks it's their job to make things right. It's not.

    If this really is financial abuse then a pat on the head is not what the op needs.
    Last edited by seashore22; 12-02-2019 at 1:43 PM.
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 1:49 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    Thanks so much everyone for your concerns ❤️

    I am concerned about his vagueness when I question his finances. He says he knows he over spends but he certainly has far more debt than I do and I don't punish him for it. He tells me how much they are for but I can't quite see where the rest of the money goes ��

    I'm going to present him with my soa and ask for the same from him.

    I'm also going to ask him if he wants to continue with the marriage or not - is he pushing me to this point so I refuse to hand over my money and then he says he can't trusr me so it's the end?
    The marriage is "ok" I'd say - I don't see much of him due to his working pattern but I do enjoy his company when he is in the mood for chatting.
    He does do some things that bother me - little annoyances but I know if I did the same he would have a moan.

    We definitely don't communicate as we used to. Did I stop trying first or did he stop listening first ? I'm not sure but I know I don't bother asking him things as often as I know he will just say "no" rather than have a discussion. I end up feeling annoyed and berated and therefore go in a "mood" and my mood ruins the rest of the day for everyone.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

238Posts Today

4,088Users online

Martin's Twitter