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Llangrannog Beach car park - PCNs when prevented from paying

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  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
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    but said he would “like to see motorists educated further” to avoid fines.

    They are not fines. I seem to recalled that OPS some years ago had to pay about £26,00o in costs to a motorist to whom they wrongly issued a fake fine.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • ParkingMad
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    Thank you The Deep. Trading Standards say they are unable to help. The landowner doesn't appear to appreciate the extent of the problem. The local MP is very helpful, however. Will also try the tourist office and the chamber of commerce. Many thanks.
  • ParkingMad
    ParkingMad Posts: 348 Forumite
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    edited 21 October 2019 at 10:10AM
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    Would this be the story you mentioned, involving OPC (Observices Parking Consultancy), rather than OPS (One Parking Solution)?

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/03/31/26000-fine-for-parking-firm/

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4832815
  • ParkingMad
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    From the local MP's Facebook page:

    Ben Lake - Ceredigion MP
    19th September 2019

    I have been inundated with complaints over the summer months about the unfair parking fines charged at the car park in Llangrannog. I was glad of the opportunity to meet with local residents and businesses today to discuss the matter further.

    It is extremely concerning that this situation has arisen as it is having a detrimental impact on the local community and indeed what is the reputation of one of the jewels in Ceredigion's crown. I shall be pursuing this further with the authorities in the hope of getting a swift resolution.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,227 Forumite
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    Good to meet you today, ParkingMad. A true campaigner against PPCs.

    :D
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • pustit
    pustit Posts: 238 Forumite
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    Gavin Price, director of OPS, told the Cambrian News that he “failed to see the relevance in bad signal and not paying for parking”.
    The car park accepts numerous ways to pay including coin, app, text, telephone, and it’s clearly a Pay & Display car park,” he said.
    “Drivers would be expected to arrive with a means of payment which include an adequate amount of coins.


    The OP says the machines weren't always working. Gavin Price doesn't address this point
  • ParkingMad
    ParkingMad Posts: 348 Forumite
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    edited 1 October 2019 at 5:24PM
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    Here is another news article in Wales Online about the parking situation at Llangrannog.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-parking-car-park-fine-16999213

    The Welsh village being torn apart by its own car park

    A controversial parking system in Llangrannog has led to a number of fines being issued
    By Robert Harries 06:00, 30 SEP 2019

    A Welsh village has been thrust into “chaos” thanks to a parking row that threatens to tear it apart. Llangrannog is a small and beautiful place. It has a beach that on a quiet day feels like your own, two pubs, cafes, a shop and a short steep walk to a vantage point that towers over the Ceredigion sea crashing into rocks on one side and the serene colour of the village on the other.

    Right in the heart of that serenity lies a car park. Not just any old car park; it’s the only car park in the village itself, and it's one from which all the local businesses spring from. It’s also the first thing you see as you arrive, but in recent months it’s been at the centre of a row.

    People have been parking here and receiving fines of £100 in the post, while others claim they have been ordered to pay even more. As you approach the car park there are 11 signs within a three-yard space: six of them advising people how to pay for parking, three of them promoting the use of a free car park outside the village, one sign is from the pub next door telling everyone that the parking charges are nothing to do with them, and there is one from the local welfare committee warning people that they may face a fine.

    Welcome to Llangrannog.

    It all started earlier this year. The car park is privately owned and for the past few months One Parking Solution has been employed to manage it. There are cameras on the side of The Ship Inn which record every car that enters the car park. A number of the 11 signs (more if you count those dotted around elsewhere) explain how much you are supposed to pay, and how you pay. But not everyone thinks it's that simple. “The system that’s in place cannot function in this environment,” says Helena Boyesen, a member of Llangrannog Welfare Committee. As she speaks she carries a folder full with complaint letters from people who have been fined. Some say they shall not return to the village ever again.

    “On several occasions, the machine has been out of order and not working at all. You put the coins in and they just come out at the bottom. So, you’re then advised to call a number to pay, or download an app on your phone to pay via that. “The problem is, people have been trying to call the number and haven’t been able to get through. Also, phone signal is a problem in Llangrannog, and good luck downloading the app with the internet down here. "You need to go into the pub, ask to connect to the wi-fi, then hope it works. “This system relies on a machine that works all the time and a reliable internet connection. That’s not possible here.”

    It’s unclear what is the grace period allowed if one is merely pulling into the car park before deciding to leave. Locals explain that, to their knowledge, such a period is applied to the end of a parking stay, meaning visitors have a certain leeway if they are late returning to their cars. However, attempts to contact One Parking Solution for a full explanation have proved unsuccessful. The fine itself is £100, which can be reduced if you pay within 14 days, or, as one man found out, can be increased to almost £200.

    Jason Deeming, who works at the pub, had a letter in mid-September demanding payment. “In July my partner came to pick me up,” he said. “She went up to pay but the machine was jammed. She then tried to phone the number on the machine but that didn’t work, so her only option was to use the wi-fi at the pub. “Finally, we got online but the app would only allow us to book a parking space for two hours’ time. “By then we’d already been parked for a while trying to sort the payment out, so we left as there was nothing else we could do. More than two months later, I get a letter - my first one - telling me to pay £182.” Mr Deeming has written to the British Parking Association about the issue and is waiting to hear back. His partner, meanwhile, is not taking any more chances - she no longer works in the village. “She just had enough because you’d be due to start work at a certain point and be late because you were messing about trying to park.”

    It seems that the introduction of ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) technology does not have the capacity for understanding and debate, as has been seen elsewhere in west Wales. In previous years a man used to work at Llangrannog car park and collect the parking fee, meaning that any issues could be discussed face to face. Mrs Boyesen said: "I have letters from people who have really tried to pay and still ended up with a ticket. The reality is, if people are put off coming to Llangrannog because of the parking issue then it will have a huge economic effect, and it will have an impact on the sustainability of the village. "It’s hard enough to keep going here in the winter months as it is. We need to make this place as welcoming as possible. “In the summer there’s a huge invasion of people and this year we saw more and more people getting upset. They are annoyed and stressed before they start, and this is supposed to be a relaxing place.”

    These sentiments are echoed by Kat Dawes, secretary of Llangrannog Welfare Committee, who says she has tried to contact the owner to let him know that both the village and his business “are suffering”. “I’ve been asked recently by a local kayaking club if it would be a good idea to come here for the day and park near the beach, and to be honest I had to tell them - ‘not really because you might get a bunch of fines’. “The biggest problem is the loss of the village’s image as a tight community and as a friendly area. It really is the jewel in Ceredigion’s crown and we are going to lose that status.” These fears appear to be supported by some of the correspondence received by the welfare committee, with one letter referring to the village as a “no go zone”. The letter states: “We have no confidence that the management of this car park is fair to users who are unable to pay the correct fee due to lack of maintenance and management of the machines and therefore Llangrannog may well suffer from a lack of tourists.”

    Another letter was sent to the local cafe - Caffi Patio. In it, the correspondent claims the machines were not working on the day of his visit and there was no phone signal to try to contact One Parking Solutions. A fine arrived in the post and an appeal has proved unsuccessful. “I for one and my family will not come to Llangrannog again,” it says on the letter. “It is such a shame as I used to enjoy having a cup of tea with a cake or ice cream and being able to watch the grandchildren playing."

    Caffi Patio is owned by Julia Palframan. She says the traffic problems in Llangrannog during the summer months cause enough stress for visitors, and that the parking row has only heightened the sense of tension. “It was only the other week that I rescued a couple who were down here for the day,” Mrs Palframan said. “They had pulled into the car park to get off the road as it was backed up with cars. They were driving around but there was nowhere to park, so they were taking their time. I went out to warn them that there were cameras watching them and they would end up getting a fine. I don’t think they believed me. “Delivery drivers have also been caught out. They’ve had fines because they have to come into the car park to drop off goods to my cafe.”

    For Mrs Palframan and her husband, who live a short distance from the cafe, the whole situation presents another unwelcome aspect. “We are living our whole lives under cameras," she said. “You can tell that sometimes customers are annoyed coming into the cafe. This should be a relaxing place to be, but it isn’t at the moment. It’s caused chaos in the village.”

    Ceredigion MP Ben Lake said he has discussed the issue with disgruntled locals, saying that he himself has been “inundated with complaints about the unfair parking fines” and that the whole situation is “having a detrimental impact” on the reputation of Llangrannog. He said he will be investigating the matter further.

    The car park itself is privately owned. We have tried to contact the owner and One Parking Solution to discuss the situation and for comment but neither has responded.

    So what’s next for Llangrannog? You get the feeling it wants to move on from being dominated by a parking row. The chair of the welfare committee, Cynyr Ifan, said: “This place is known as a picturesque village with a relaxing atmosphere, and this issue is taking that away. The whole image of Llangrannog is being affected.”
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
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    Amazing what is going on with these scammers

    The BPA will not be interested, they are just an old dinosaur only interested in collecting membership fees.

    Why not give Wales online a link to this forum ?
  • Fight_the_good_fight
    Fight_the_good_fight Posts: 196 Forumite
    edited 1 October 2019 at 12:55AM
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    I have have just been approached by a driver who is receipt of an invoice from OPS for a 23 minute “ visit”to said car park.

    Circs,driver pulls into car park and makes several attempts to pay by cash including several trips back and forth to vehicle to try other coins but money just falls through. Driver then tries to contact via phone to make payment but no signal. Driver and passenger then make several attempts to sign up to the app but keep failing due to lack of signal.

    In frustration driver leaves the car park as unable to complete the contract and not wishing to receive a PCN,but by this time had been on site for 23 minutes and subsequently drove to another village to spend his money.

    My question to the more legal/ eagles on this site in addition to all the other well known pointers would such circumstances be considered as some form of frustration of contract or similar.

    Secondly as I am trying to convince driver to run with this are OPS frequent visitors to court.

    In the meantime the driver will be contacting the local MP and local rag to vent their spleen and highlight the consequences
    I Am Charlie
  • ParkingMad
    ParkingMad Posts: 348 Forumite
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    edited 2 October 2019 at 1:26AM
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    My question to the more legal/ eagles on this site in addition to all the other well known pointers would such circumstances be considered as some form of frustration of contract or similar.

    Secondly as I am trying to convince driver to run with this are OPS frequent visitors to court.


    Kelvin Reynolds of the BPA explains that there is a variable observation period before the parking contract begins.

    https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods?fbclid=IwAR347R1ULeXKZvPz7ArWZ3hBl-5-1EV949-dc4oHbU0NQreZcvRZDrqanQg

    This is to account for individual circumstances. For example, in this car park, it takes a long time to pay. It is not 10 minutes. The 10 minute grace period is at the end of the parking contract.The contract begins when the motorist pays for their parking.
    OPS have only been issuing claims and attending court in the Sussex area so far. Probably an average of 2 or 3 cases per week recently.
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