Court claim

1shaz1234 · 17 March 2019 at 4:43PM

Hi there guys, hope everyone is doing well.

I am starting this thread as I believe my next step is to write up a defence but I'm not sure how to go about this. I have completed the acknowledgement of service so I can have more time to do so.

What had happened originally(over a year ago) the driver had unknowingly went into a private car park to simply pick up a friend. I state unknowingly because the driver did not see the signs due to bad weather and poor visibility (this was early afternoon around 12-1pm in the winter months) the driver had been there for around 5 minutes and then drove away from the place as soon as their friend was in the vehicle. Isn't there a 10 minute parking grace at any sort of parking? They did not even state in one letter how long the driver was there for.

A week later the keeper had received a PCN ( from Euro Parking services) and was simply ignored. The PCN had stated not parked correctly within the lines. In that PCN you can see the vehicle that was stationery, with its lights on. However, pictures were only taken from the back and not the front. Whoever took those pictures may have done that because they knew someone was in the car.

They also took the pictures with flash on as you can see the reflection of the flash on the vehicle, Does anyone take photos with flash on in broad daylight unless there's bad visibility? I suppose this would prove the statement of there being poor visibility due to bad weather, again this was at 12-1pm...

Long story short, the keeper had ignored all the threatening letters received. Gladstones solicitors had sent a "letter before claim" in november saying to pay £160. This was ignored till a court claim with the issue date 20th of February was sent. Completed the AoS.

The total amount now is £248.20
Amount claimed 173.20 court fee 25 and legal rep costs 50

In the PoC it stayed the vehicle parked in breach of the terms of parking on 02/01/18. Claimaint claims £100 for PCN, £60 for contractual costs pursuant to the contract and PCN terms and conditions together with statutory interest of £13.20 pursuant to s69 of country courts act.

In the particular of claims it is also stated that the driver of the vehicle agreed to pay the PCN within 28 days of issue yet failed to do so. This seems confusing as this did not happen, I suppose entering a car park means you immediately agree on the terms despite not seeing them and what about the 10 minutes parking grace? Do you need me to write the full PoC without personal info or is this enough?

What are the next steps? What is the best way to write up a defence and is there a certain way to write it up?

Oh Thank you for taking your time to read this.

Redx · 17 March 2019 at 4:55PM

clearly you havent taken on board the advice of not to infer who did what, apart from using KEEPER and DRIVER, to clarify,

what happened on the day , happened to the DRIVER

and what happened SINCE that day, happened to the KEEPER

the following words should not be used

"MY , ME , MYSELF & I"

next, post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread guides you through defences with examples, so if unsure, start with the concise DEFENCE by member BARGEPOLE, and build on it

the next thing you have missed out , which we always have to ask in almost every thread you have read so far because people never type it in, is

what is the DATE OF ISSUE on your claim form & WHICH PPC issued it ?

so edit post #1 above and answer the questions

also add the full POC and the breakdown of charges plus the total on that claim form, MINUS personal info, as well as the DATE OF ISSUE and name of the PPC

and no more blabbing about who did what

and email a SAR to the DPO of the PPC (which PPC issued the claim form ?) and get all the data they have on you, today, giving them 30 days notice to reply

ShakeItOff · 17 March 2019 at 5:23PM

Have a check through the NEWBIES post #2, and scroll down to the defence links. You will see that in those links, regardless of the facts of the case, there are going to be some pretty common themes (signage, contract, authority to bring a claim etc).

It might also be worth heading out and getting some pictures of how difficult it is to see the signage at the same light conditions. One of your key points is going to be that the driver couldn't possibly enter into a contract that they could not see. That isn't something to submit in your defence, as this is more for your WS, so this isn't an urgent task.

Definitely get a SAR sent off to the PPC and to the DVLA. Both will have the email address of their DPO on their privacy policy page. DVLA will turn it around quite quickly, from experience, by you can pretty much guarantee that the PPC will drag their heels to the deadline.

Oh, and when you're ready, post up your anonymised defence for comment.

1shaz1234 · 17 March 2019 at 5:27PM

I have updated the original post please let me know if anything else is needed

ShakeItOff · 17 March 2019 at 5:30PM

Next thing needed is for you to look at the example defences in Post #2 of the NEWBIES thread. Bargepole is legally qualified and has kindly put defences up in the appropriate format and language. You would be well placed to follow his example.

When you're ready, post your defence up.

Redx · 17 March 2019 at 6:02PM

EURO P S are IPC members, so you can easily download and read their CoP, checking GRACE PERIODS especially (no need to ask us, just read the BPA CoP and the IPC CoP as there are only two at the moment and both contain grace periods info)

the signage is what forms the contract with any driver (not keeper) and so if they are poor , inadequate and or unlit at night , this can form one part of any defence

KEEPER LIABILITY UNDER POFA 2012 is another aspect of any defence , as this could make the keeper liable for the drivers actions, if EURO P S complied

GRACE PERIODS may be another, although the ten minute "rule" may apply here, no longer, so check that IPC CoP

this is probably a GLADSTONES claim, and the DOI being 20th feb 2019 for Euro P S

The total amount now is £248.20
Amount claimed 173.20 court fee 25 and legal rep costs 50

this infers they have added extra fees on , "double recovery" ( £60 debt collector recovery on top of any £100 charge) and are probably not allowed , so you also object to the added fees as this is small claims court

now start drafting the proposed defence and post it below for critique

KeithP · 18 March 2019 at 12:10AM

1shaz1234 wrote: »

...a court claim with the issue date 20th of February was sent. Completed the AoS.

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th February, you had until Monday 11th March to do the Acknowledgement of Service.

I am going to assume you did do the AoS within that timescale. Please confirm.

Having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 25th March 2019 to file your Defence.

That's jsu a week away. Loads of time to produce a Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Sign it and date it.
Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

1shaz1234 · 24 March 2019 at 12:10AM

Hi there thank you all for your replies as I have had a really busy week filled with deadlines I have now made up my defence, is this fine or would I need more? What else can I add?

I am the Defendant... ..... .... .... ....

I deny any liability to the Claimant whatsoever on the following basis
Unclear signage and parking signs given that there was poor visibilty on the day, the driver of the vehicle had not seen the signage and had simply pulled over to load a passenger and left in a very short time period. The signage was insufficient and illegible as there was poor visibilty given the cloudy, rainy winter day thus meaning that the driver did not enter into any agreement. The photos that were sent with the PCN were only the back of the vehicle, there was not any attempt to talk or warn the driver whilst they were sat in the car to tell them they needed to move. In the photos you can also see that the person that took them had used the flash feature on his or her camera, this further proves my point of there being poor visibilty on the early afternoon rainy winter day this unfair PCN was issued.

The driver was given no fair chance to read any terms at all, so the elements of a contract and agreement on any (unknown) charge are absent. Where terms on a parking sign are not seen/known, then there can be no contract. I rely upon the case of Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest; CA 5 APR 2000, a case won by the consumer on appeal where the Judges also found that clear entrance signs are expected.

As any ‘charge’ or terms on signage on the day was not seen, again due to poor visibilty, but even if the court believes signs were displayed, the terms were in such small print as to be illegible, contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The Claimant also did not comply with the Part B, section 15 of the Code of Practice regarding grace periods: The photographic evidence submitted by Euro Parking Services in the PCN were dated and time stamped but never in any letter did they show how long the vehicle was parked there for, this may really be because the driver had literally only pulled over to load their passenger and also because the vehicle was there and gone in around 5 minutes.

KeithP · 24 March 2019 at 12:17AM

1shaz1234 wrote: »

What else can I add?

Well you could address this:

KeithP wrote: »

I am going to assume you did do the AoS within that timescale. Please confirm.

Also, I would strongly suggest you re-read the guidance offered by ShakeItOff in posts #3 and #5 above.

Redx · 24 March 2019 at 12:39AM

adapt the concise defence by member BARGEPOLE

Coupon-mad · 24 March 2019 at 12:42AM

1shaz1234 wrote: »

Hi there thank you all for your replies as I have had a really busy week filled with deadlines I have now made up my defence, is this fine or would I need more? What else can I add?

I am the Defendant... ..... .... .... ....

I deny any liability to the Claimant whatsoever on the following basis
Unclear signage and parking signs given that there was poor visibilty on the day, the driver of the vehicle had not seen the signage and had simply pulled over to load a passenger and left in a very short time period. The signage was insufficient and illegible as there was poor visibilty given the cloudy, rainy winter day thus meaning that the driver did not enter into any agreement. The photos that were sent with the PCN were only the back of the vehicle, there was not any attempt to talk or warn the driver whilst they were sat in the car to tell them they needed to move. In the photos you can also see that the person that took them had used the flash feature on his or her camera, this further proves my point of there being poor visibilty on the early afternoon rainy winter day this unfair PCN was issued.

The driver was given no fair chance to read any terms at all, so the elements of a contract and agreement on any (unknown) charge are absent. Where terms on a parking sign are not seen/known, then there can be no contract. I rely upon the case of Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest; CA 5 APR 2000, a case won by the consumer on appeal where the Judges also found that clear entrance signs are expected.

As any ‘charge’ or terms on signage on the day was not seen, again due to poor visibilty, but even if the court believes signs were displayed, the terms were in such small print as to be illegible, contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The Claimant also did not comply with the Part B, section 15 of the Code of Practice regarding grace periods: The photographic evidence submitted by Euro Parking Services in the PCN were dated and time stamped but never in any letter did they show how long the vehicle was parked there for, this may really be because the driver had literally only pulled over to load their passenger and also because the vehicle was there and gone in around 5 minutes.

That isn't anything like the defence examples shown as links in the NEWBIES thread.

Court claim

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