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2 x Claim Form Civil Enforcement Ltd
Comments
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Read this thread which explains how to complain to the court about the late/backdated PoC
Hi sorry I should have said I had read the post, I was just checking that although it was backdated the POC was only 1 day late as the envelope was stamped 01/11/2017 one day after due date. so the backdated date may not be worth mentioning?They’re stat8ng the defendant is the driver Make them prove it in your defence.
thanks I will try to incorporate it in my defence0 -
You should still complain to the court as per these examples:-
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5736717
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/57358630 -
I would also write to the claimant and tell them that they are late and should apply for relief from sanctions. The PoC are late and it is not within your power to extend time retrospectively.You should still complain to the court as per these examples
If it is their case that the PoC were served on time demand a copy of the certificate of service verified by a statement of truth as to the date of service. They are required to lodge one at court in any case where the PoC were dispatched separately. Remind them that penalties apply for false verification (contempt of court).
You will still need to prepare and serve your defence on time.
Arguably, the Claimant is also in breach of the CPR for not providing the contract with the Particulars (read the practice directions). Once served separately I don't believe the MCOL exemption from this rule applies.0 -
Arguably, the Claimant is also in breach of the CPR for not providing the contract with the Particulars (read the practice directions). Once served separately I don't believe the MCOL exemption from this rule applies.
Bang on. I read the rules this morning. PD 7E (which relates solely to MCOL claims) -
There is a rule that says that a Claimant suing under a contract must provide a copy of the contract with the Claim - PD 16 para 7.3.
However, this does not apply to MCOL claims and the exemption is contained in PD 7E para 5.2A.
However, PD 7E para 5.2A goes on to say that the exemption does NOT apply if separate PoCs are served
This should be immediately drawn to CEL's attention as soon as the PoC are received.
The point is that the CEL PoC I've seen have a "schedule of information" attached to them which it is claimed sets out the relevant t&cs in the signage. They are nothing of the sort. You are entitled to a copy of the "contract" which the rules say must be attached to the PoC (if served spararately). Quote these rules.Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0 -
Would this be good to add to the letter to the courts and CEL in relation to the late Prticulars?0
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Yes definitely
You'd have thought professional litigators would bother to familiarise themselves with the rules.
This is also the sort of stuff you would have expected to receive in the pre-action phase of proceedings (the who,e point of the obligations is so everyone understands the other's case/ dance so that if proceedings are issued they can progress much more efficiently).Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0 -
Hi I have drafted the letter to complain about late PoCs and have tried to add a paragraph about the contract not being included, i would be grateful if someone could read it over. Should i post one to the court and one to CEL, do i need to state in the one to the court that i have sent one to cel? Also I know you can email your defence to the court could I email this as well?
Dear XXXXX
Claim number [xxxxxxx]
I am writing to draw to your attention that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4(1)(b).
The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.
The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st Nov. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on 2nd Nov, However, they were dated the 11th October. which means that my defense is therefore not due until the 16th November (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).
The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the santions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.
I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.
It is stated that a claimant suing under a contract must provide a copy of the contract with the Claim Pratice Directions 16b para 7.3 However this does not apply to MCOL claims and the exemption is contained in Pratice Directions 7E para 5.2A. However this exemption does not apply if separate PoCs are served as stated in Pratice Directions 7E para 5.2A. Therefore the Claimant is also in breach of the CPR for not providing the contract with the Particulars
This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.
Yours Faithfully0 -
Looks good.
Just a few typos - pratice, defense, santions.0 -
will fix the spelling lol wrong with spell checker0
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Hi I have drafted the letter to complain about late PoCs and have tried to add a paragraph about the contract not being included, i would be grateful if someone could read it over. Should i post one to the court and one to CEL, do i need to state in the one to the court that i have sent one to cel? Also I know you can email your defence to the court could I email this as well?
Dear XXXXX
Claim number [xxxxxxx]
I am writing to draw to your attention that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4(1)(b).
The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.
The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st Nov. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on 2nd Nov, However, they were dated the 11th October. which means that my defence is therefore not due until the 16th November (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).
The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.
I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.
It is stated that a claimant suing under a contract must provide a copy of the contract with the Claim Practice Directions 16b para 7.3 However this does not apply to MCOL claims and the exemption is contained in Practice Directions 7E para 5.2A. However this exemption does not apply if separate PoCs are served as stated in Practice Directions 7E para 5.2A. Therefore the Claimant is also in breach of the CPR for not providing the contract with the Particulars.
This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.
Yours Faithfully0
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