CEL ? -- ARE YOU UNDER ATTACK ?? Read this thread

beamerguy

ARE YOU UNDER ATTACK ?? Read this thread

For those receiving claims

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=cel

pappa_golf

you fail to mention what happened with the Coop cases , even tho a judge ORDERED the case to be heard , it never was , all traces of those two test cases dissapeared , "!!!!!!" no longer on record , this had got passed the stage of them pulling out , the judge ORDERED it!

explain that?

Loadsofchildren123

Anyone receiving new claims PLEASE do NOT return an AoS saying you intend to defend IF the Claim Form states that "Further Particulars of Claim to follow within 14 days" or wording to that effect.


If this wording is present, you do not have to do ANYTHING until after the further PoC have been received.


Another trick up CEL's sleeve is to send out the PoC late, but backdated by 16+ days to make it look like they were served in time, or to try to shorten the timetable for your AoS/defence, or to make it look like you are out of time (presumably so they can get default judgment).


When the further PoC arrive, LOOK AT YOUR ENVELOPE TO SEE WHAT THE POSTMARK IS. Do not throw it away. Then look at the covering letter and the PoC - is the date more than a day or two before they were posted?


Your time limit for filing your AoS is within 14 days of service of the further PoC - the day of posting plus 1 day (if this is a Sat/Sun or public holiday count to the next working day), and your time limit for filing your defence is 14 days after that.


Write immediately to the court and CEL to tell them that you have noticed the backdating and to complain vigorously about it, and to tell them when it was actually served and when your AoS and defence are ACTUALLY due.


If the PoC are out of time (more than 14 days after the Claim Form is deemed served - this is 5 days after issue, ie 19 days after the date on the Claim Form) then you may also complain to the court and CEL that the PoC have not been validly served and that CEL should be applying for relief from sanctions under CPR Rule 3.9 if it wants to rely on them, and that until it does so successfully you are not required to file either an AoS or a defence. Where service is a few days late the court is likely to grant sanctions, but it's another hoop to force CEL to jump through. Some defendants (those with good defences) may prefer not to bother with this and to get on with defending their claims.

wanderer2426

Has anybody drafted a letter to the court for the Poc being out of date? If so could you point me in the direction of any examples?

Berribear

Here's one Loads of Children kindly did for me, obviously you'll need to change to your details with regard to dates etc....

“




Thanks for the info LoC.


Okay, here is my complaint letter that will be sent to CBBC and CEL:-


31st October 2017

Dear XXXXX

Claim number [xxxxxxx]

Regarding Claim Form XXXX I am writing to draw to your attention that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 10th October, stating that the Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 27th October. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on 30th October (as 28/29 October were Saturday/Sunday). However, they were dated the 11th October. , but not actually posted until the 27th October and received on the 28th October, a Saturday, meaning service was on the 30th October and


Service on 30 October means that my defense is therefore not due until the 13th November (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 16 days, together with the covering letter. breach by the Particulars of Claim and the covering letter being backdated 11 October, whereas they were only posted on the 27th October and received on 28th October. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 27th October, a copy of which I have provided as evidence
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear - under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9. OP I don't think your PoC were actually out of time so don't bother with this. The intention of this letter is to make sure the court doesn't think the PoC were served on 11 October, but much later, so that you don't get accused of late filing of your defence.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Yours Faithfully
Originally posted by Berribear
”
Amendments in red, one comment in green. I don't think you should bother with rule 3.8/9 because I don't think they were out of time. The real issue is preventing anyone from thinking they were sent on 11 October which would mean your defence is due much earlier than it actually is.

Coral87

Who would this letter have been addressed too? And would it be any good if AoS has already been submitted?

wanderer2426

I submitted my defence on 19/10/17 as I thought best get it done, obviously the new system has come to light now so will I be ok to use this despite having already submitted my defence? My dates are as follows: claim form dated 11/10/17, acknowledgement of service 13/10/17, defence sent 19/10/17, particulars of claim received 2/11/17 (dated 11/10/17) post mark date 1/11/17. What dates do I include where on the letter?

The_Deep

They will come a cropper sooner or later, they only need to ticket the wrong marine.

Look what happened to Ratner, Brighthouse, Eisseneggar, The Officers chub, Gerald Ronson, Woolworths, Comet, Land of Leather, courts, MFI, Jessops, and many many more.

Lose the trust of the public and you will be toast.

Berribear

Edit the letter with your dates Then EMAIL it to the the County Court Business Centre:-

ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

Then write to CEL informing them you have emailed the court and enclose a copy of your email

This is very important:- don't just copy and paste and then email it, read it carefully, change the dates on the sample complaint letter to the dates of your claim and POC were issued, served and posted and what date the POC was backdated to....scan a copy of the envelope your POC arrived in showing the postal date as evidence the POC was backdated to. On my POC it was backdated to 11th Oct but wasn't posted until 27th October

wanderer2426

I can't use the above letter as I have already submitted my defence on 19/10/17. The advice says now not to file defence until particulars have been received, but I didn't realise at the time that I hadn't already received particulars. I have now seen it in small print on the claim letter that it will be sent within 14 days but missed this before, it was all confusing, thought I had it right but obviously didn't!

Anyway, can I still submit a letter saying they were late? I also don't know the posting date as the letter and form just say 11/10/17 but I only received it today with post mark 1/11/17

Berribear

I'm not sure, one of the regular posters should be able to advise you