2 x Claim Form Civil Enforcement Ltd

Eaglehawk

Hi there I have received two claim forms from CEL (322.43 each) :eek: for parking fines dated 11 October 2017. I have read through the sticky notes and entered a AOS for both claims.I am now going to start to build my defence which I will post online and hopefully someone will help check it over, Before I start I was checking to see that as the claims are both to me for two different cars over the same time period (I am registered keeper of both cars) can that help in the defence of at least one of the claims or am I responsible for both as I am the registered keeper.

Redx

I dont see that it matters

you have 2 separate court claims that have been sent to the person whose details are on file at the DVLA , one for each vehicle in this case

if they can prove they followed POFA2012 then they can hold you as keeper liable for them (so in theory you are "responsible" for both of them)

so you will have to draft a defence for each one , even if they are identical defences , except for the VRM details , pcn details , MCOL references and any other discrepancies

you may need to get them added together so a judge considers both of them at the same hearing

do the draft defence (assuming you have done the AOS online for each one)

if the POC are to follow in 14 days , then amend each defence as necessary once the POC are known

use this as your starter for ten template , and adapt it

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5729157

ps:- they are not "fines" , they are invoices (known as Parking Charge Notices , or PCN`s)

Coupon-mad

Eaglehawk wrote: »

Hi there I have received two claim forms from CEL (322.43 each) :eek: for parking fines dated 11 October 2017. I have read through the sticky notes and entered a AOS for both claims.I am now going to start to build my defence which I will post online and hopefully someone will help check it over,

Before I start I was checking to see that as the claims are both to me for two different cars over the same time period (I am registered keeper of both cars) can that help in the defence of at least one of the claims or am I responsible for both as I am the registered keeper.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5731457

Good example defence there. You are being WRONGLY pursued as keeper, and this is defendable.

Eaglehawk

Hi yes I completed both acknowledgement of service online, I will start the draft defence now thanks

Eaglehawk

Hi I have read CEL claims general advice, on receiving the PoC and what dates apply but i am a bit confused. I have already filed an AoS online, last week on the 21st October (Claim dated 11th October) , I have not yet received the PoC from CEL, I am unsure of what date I need to submit a defence, did my action of submitting a AoS start the clock ticking or will it only start from receiving the PoC. Hope this makes sense.

[Deleted User]

Time can only run from receipt of the particulars.

Arguably, having already acknowledged, you now will have a maximum of 14 days to complete and serve the defence once PoC received.

Eaglehawk

Thanks for the quick response I will wait and see if they send on time.

Loadsofchildren123

Agree with Johnersh.
I’ll amend the general advice to make this clear.

Eaglehawk

Hi I have now received the POC they are dated the day of the claim 11 october 2017, in an envelope post marked 01/11/2017 they are only a couple of days later than the deadline of 30/11/2017 . I thought I would show what has arrived, The POC are broken down as follows;

1. At all material times, the claimant managed the car park the address of which is stated on the attached Schedule of Information, The car park is private property.

2. By way of background, the claimant uses Automated Number Plate Recognition ('ANPR') cameras at the entrance and exit of the Car Park, which identify time of arrival and departure of vehicles from the car park.

3. There are many clear and visible signs in the Car Park advising drivers of the terms and conditions of use. Drivers are permitted to park in the Car Park in accordance with the terms displayed on the signage, and these signs constitute an offer by the Claimant to enter into a contract with drivers.

4. The key terms of the signs are summerised in the attached Schedule of Information.

5. When the defendatnt parked their vehcile (on the date and time as set out in the attached Schedule Of Information) in the Car Park they accepted, by their conduct, the terms and conditions of parking, See Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council [2000] 4 All ER 169,
6. The Defendant breached the terms and conditions of the site and, as such, is liable to pay the Claimant the amounts as set out in the attached Schedule of Information.

7. The Supreme Court Judgment in case of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis has established that it is both legal and commercially justifiable for car park operators to implement a disincentive, such as the above, so as to efficiently manage the Car Park for the benifit of its users. Our charge is neither extravagant nor unconscionable, and falls within the British Parking Associations guidlines as stated in their code of Practice

8. The claimant claims the amount owed, plus court and legal fees, and interest, pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 on the amount found to be due to the Claimant at such rate, and for such period, as the court sees fit.
followed by statement of proof and signed by Ashley Cohen

The schedule of information attached is as follows
Claimant: Civil Enforcement Limited
Defendant:

---

Vehcile regerstration

---

date of incident 03/03/2017
arrival time:03/03/2017 19:40:48
departure time: 03/03/2017 20:52:14
site details

---

outstanding amount : $322.43 (Including legal fees and interest rates to date)
Summary of Terms: 1 hour maximum stay - if you exceed the free parking allowance, you agree to pay £100. These terms apply at all times. Additional costs/recovery charges will be incurred if payment is not received within 28 days.

There was nothing else attached no photo's etc. The documents are laid out in the same way that it is suggested on this forum eg double spaced .

reading previous posts etc.. i think i was expecting badly laid out document.

Is what is laid out above the norm people are getting, and does the fact there are no photos help me in any way?
I am going to lay out my defence now, should should i put in the defence the fact of the date on document does not match the posted date or is it irrelevant as the POC came repetitively on time?

cheers

Lamilad

Is what is laid out above the norm people are getting, and does the fact there are no photos help me in any way?
I am going to lay out my defence now, should should i put in the defence the fact of the date on document does not match the posted date or is it irrelevant as the POC came repetitively on time?

Read this thread which explains how to complain to the court about the late/backdated PoC

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5735738

nosferatu1001

They’re stat8ng the defendant is the driver

Make them prove it in your defence.