how to get wife to support my budgeting activity

MPwannasavemoney

I read this in the budgeting article:
"Sorry! You spend more than you earn

It’s very simple - if you spend more than you earn – you must cut back. There’s no choice. Don’t fool yourself. Many people are shocked by this yet my budgeting method is designed to look at real expenditure. Often big purchases and other annual spending is missed out – this is the truth – sorry. Deal with it now. There are two ways:

Pain-free: You should’ve done this already, but if you haven’t then now you know it MUST be done. Use all the articles on this site to ensure you’re doing the best with your finances. Make sure you’re getting more and paying less, go through the articles to find the best products. After you’ve done that – fill this in again. Hopefully your expenditure will now be nearer your income.

No pain no gain: If you still haven’t saved enough you need to cut back. Use the PART C – MONTHLY DESIRED spend column of the spreadsheet to set yourself realistic limits to your monthly expenditure. This is all about prioritising your finances. Yes, sacrifices are necessary (if you have the book see Merrick’s MoneySaving diary for great inspiration). You have to find a way to balance this – you’d be surprised where you can save."

My wide doesn't care about following this advice. If we carry on as we are we will be in debt in about 3 years.

Her answer is to increase our income but this is actually impractical because:

1) I am in a job that pays quite well yet lets me fit in with family life (we have a 10 month old baby and a 5 year old) - if I get a higher paying job I will a - have to commute much further and travel more on business b - never see the family except at weekends c - the domestic chores I'm doing now will have to be done by paid domestic help

2) Any work my wife is likely to be able to do in the next 5 years will not cover childcare expenses and the cost of getting a cleaner in

3) I earn more than the child tax credit limits so can't claim these or offset child care costs

4) My wife is physically not fit enough to work and do domestic chores so working full time will be impossible for her

We are living in expensive Surrey (because that is where I work) - a decent size house with a mortgage that we can only repay on an interest only basis. We moved here 2 1/2 years ago and that has proved to be a mistake - the utility bills are huge (yes we have switched to the 'cheapest' provider) the house is on a water meter so the water bill is double the water rates in the old place and the council tax - what with the bigger house and the increases in the last few years on top all adds up. Then there are the house repairs needed etc etc. And as the house is bigger there is more room to keep things so the wife carries on spending money.

I've tried explaining to my wife the impact of carrying on as we are and whereas she says 'yes we can't carry on as we are' she doesn't carry this out with actions such as reducing spending, not asking for a holiday/short break, not asking for the best quality items for the bathroom that needs replacing, not filling the elder daughter's room full of toys when one toy would have done, not look at replacing the kitchen yet as it will last another 5 years at least.

I've managed to get to the stage where we are recording what we are spending in a ledger, however she never fills in what she spends and when I sit down to do it all I get are complaints (why am I spending time doing the accounts when xyz needs doing?). Her attitude basically is that every item of expenditure has some 'justification' which cannot be argued against and she doesn't recognise that overspending in one area means having to cut back elsewhere! Every means I find of saving money generally backfires as it cannot be applied to the family (e.g. can't fit low energy bulbs as the wife says they are not bright enough or take too long to get bright or give the wrong shade of white, can't turn the heating off or down at night as the wife might have to get up to go the bathroom or attend to the children and she will feel cold, can't persuade her to car share with other families on the school run to save the car - which only does 25mpg - from wasting petrol on a 1 mile roundtrip to school, can't put "spare" cash into the offset mortgage to save some interest, can't use prefix successfully on the appropriate telephone calls - we once had a prefix of 1263 and guess what happens when you dial 123 by mistake!)

She has suggested visiting a financial adviser to get them to look at things and for them to explain to her in simpler language how to go about doing these things. This is fine if I could find one that won't want to sell us something - do such people exist other than Alvin Hall (in fact that what we really need - Alvin Hall to pay us a visit).

I've thought about moving to a smaller place - the only problem is it will cost about £20,000 to move and another £20,000 to bring the house upto the standard acceptable to the wife to live in. This is money down the drain as far as I'm concerned especially as house prices are not going up around here. Even then after the move we will still be spending more than I'm earning - we were doing this before we moved!

It is possible for me to bring the mortgage payments down by switching (currently on 5.65%, best 3 year rate appears to be around 4.3%) however this means making a commitment so as not to have to pay any redemption penalty - not something my wife wants to commit to in case "we feel the need" to move - once "we feel the need" to move she will want to do so there and then and she doesn't take no for an answer.

But we need to save a lot more than that!

Any advice appreciated!

Edinburghlass_2

Mmm difficult one, have you read Martin's book?

If not try and get it from the library meantime as there is an updated version due out at the end of the year so worth waiting to buy that one.

Can you get her to read some of the stories on the Debt Free Wannabe board as to what might well happen if she doesn't rein in now?

MPwannasavemoney

She has no time or interest to read this type of material - that is why I need Alvin Hall!

I haven't read Martin's book - I think I know most of the principles of what needs to be done but I could read it if I ever get the time - thanks for the tip anyway.

rchddap1

I'm not sure what to suggest myself. How obvious are you making your budget to her? For example, is it stuck on the fridge so that she has a constant reminder when you aren't there. Do you sit down with her and do the budget together, or is it something you do?

When she says "lets have a short break"...and you don't think you can afford it...what do you say. "Yes dear of course"...."I don't think that we can afford it....oh okay then dear lets go"...."I wish...we still need to sort out the bathroom, kitchen etc....".

One of the ways I got my OH into the money saving lark, was to crow about how much money I've managed to save. Eg, when buying a xmas pressie I'd comment on how much I could have spent...and then say how much I actually spent. After constantly going on about MSE and how great it is...he eventually took a look for himself. Now whenever I go shopping, he is the one wagging his finger saying....."yes but do you actually need it".

Edit: Just because she has no interest in reading it...doesn't mean you can read it and then drop it into conversations here and there.

Counting_Pennies_2

It is a tough one.

I am the worst moneysaver in the world. I have had a tough couple of years with my health and where I was really good at budgeting when needed when I was working, now I am staying at home the majority of the time, I end up feeling I need more rewards like breaks away, nice fittings in the house etc.

When I was ill when my son was really little I would over compensate by buying a toy of 3 for him to 'make up' for the time I was depressed or poorly. Wrong I know but it made me feel I was being a good mum!

I also look at the house with a more critical eye now I am in it 24 hours a day and do want the best.

It doesn't help your predicament, but wanted to explain it maybe from another point of view.

Do you think that on top of maybe some of the factors above she feels she is being criticised, I am the worst for being touchy when my husband comes behind me switching lights off just as I walk out of a room, etc.

Is there a way of making the moneysaving a target for something else. Such as; we spend 'x' on the heating at the moment, how about switching it off at night and not having it on all the day, wearing a thick dressing gown if she has to go to the bathroom, and the money that is saved over the year can go towards a weekend break away, or the fixings for the bathroom. Making it worthwhile for her to go along with the cost cutting.

She may also in some indirect way be saying she wants to do more than stay at home with the little ones and that she could do with a break from the house and kids and work one day a week. If she could find a job to at least break even with the childcare maybe that would help her be more motivated and then more motivated to save money.

HTH

Queenie

One way I would suggest, is to make certain that you have a minimum of 3 accounts: His/Hers/Ours!!!

Basically, the "Ours" covers all the general running of the house: mortgage/bills/groceries/clothing/savings for repair projects/long term savings, etc., etc.

Then, you both have your own "pocket money" accounts! She doesn't question what you spend your money on and vice versa. This is just personal spending.

When our financies were in a pig state, the very worse I came up against was his of feeling "deprived" - he got a set allowance each month to spend as he liked (no questions asked!) and I knuckled down and tackled the finances (couldn't afford my own allowance, but then, I didn't feel "deprived" )

Next, you *have* to have shared goals!!! If you are both pulling in different directions and with opposing attitudes towards money, you're never going to get out of the spiral you feel you are in

For example, tell her she can *have* her new kitchen (whatever) but, she has to cost it up, work out how much needs saving each month in order to achieve that goal and you both work out a timescale (if you reckon 5yrs, then it's 5 yrs!!) If she wants to use some of her personal allowance to bump up the monthly amount so she gets it a bit quicker, then she's welcome to do that too.

Perhaps consider her view of life .. is she lonely? Does she spend to get a buzz? Does she want new things all the time because she's feeling depressed? How has she coped with moving to a new area and having a baby all within 2 yrs of one another?

You'll need to be firm, but fair. You'll need to see things from her point of view, as well as your own, and you'll both have to make compromises.

Check out some of the mortgage forums and the utilities one's and see if there are changes you could make there on the larger bills.

Sign her up on here and get her to look through the variety of forums that could provide: insight/alternatives/encouragement to do things a little more frugally and also ... to meet like minded others

calleyw

This does not seem to be a very fair relationship. You say she will not take no for answer. When we want to move in reality you mean when she wants to move.

I think until the relationship is on a 50/50 footing you are fighting a loosing battle.

She is an adult not a child who can sulk when when they don't get there own way. But your problems run deeper then money. And I think you gave the clue here.

"4) My wife is physically not fit enough to work and do domestic chores so working full time will be impossible for her"

She has lost her own indepedence ad money. And I don't think she can handle it. And her way of coping is to spend. She is earning no money of her own so she spends the household income as she please.

But this is the way I see it you are doing your job which is to go and earn the money for the household. And her job (wether she likes it or not) is to look after the children and run the household. Which means making money go around.

I am not sure what else to say. But I do think you have a huge battle ahead of you. And I wish you all the luck in the world.

Also I do agree with Queenie about the 3 accounts we run are household the same.

Yours

Calley

MPwannasavemoney

thanks some good tips here - I think 'her view of life' is a factor here but she has always been a spender.
She gets her own account and allowance from me.
I get nothing - everything else and more goes on the household expenditure.
We need to analyse where this is going to separate it better - I'd like to have a childrens account too.
As far as saving for the new kitchen is concerned - she wants it now - her attitude is spend money before you have it not the other way around. When we got married I had to clear £8000 worth of debts for her.
As to 'meeting like minded others' - that would be a good idea - but it needs to be in person she is not an online type.

MPwannasavemoney

thanks for the response - she thinks I'm the one with the problem!

rchddap1

A lot of people here weren't the 'online type' until they got to the crunch point...came here for advice....and have been stuck here since. Some MSE bods get together in person as well, or help each other out if they live closeby. We're not just a bunch of people that send message to each other over the net. We are much, much more than that.

As regards the new kitchen my temptation would be to tell her that you simply can't afford it, but if she wanted to save for it and pay for it out of her 'allowance' then that was fine with you.

MPwannasavemoney

At Xmas 2003 it had taken a year and 3 attempts to get her to sit down and see a draft budget. Some of it sank in especially when I recategorised it in a way she could understand. Getting more time to do any more is proving difficult with a pregnancy then a baby getting in the way.

But its not stuck on the fridge and its not in her face - any mention of the work and she breaks out in a cold sweat.

Harping on about saving - sometimes helps but often elicits the response "if you spent as much time increasing your income as saving money we would be much better off!"