Innocents affected by this

m00m00

brit1234 wrote: »

Sorry but I can't see the government cutting teachers, police, nurses or fireman. There are many safe government jobs.

but a series of below inflation pay rises will make the jobs pretty much untenable, particularly in a high 'real' inflation scenario

posh*spice

brit1234 wrote: »

Sorry but I can't see the government cutting teachers, police, nurses or fireman. There are many safe government jobs.

True but I think the govt have got abit flabby

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7462791.stm

Crickey I'm all for cycling but 4 fork sake £11.4 MILLION. That makes me want to weep (and I'm a labour member) Don't they know we're nearly in recession.:rolleyes:

Jorgan_2

Don't forget that social housing is going to be affected, no building, no new social housing.

$$$_12

thriftybabe wrote: »

I guess you would have no problem when I have tell my 4th year apprentices (that have 3 months to go before their times out) that they are being paid off. So I will just tell them that ignorance isn't an excuse and you should have seen this happen before you got into the business!
...
We personally have done well over the last few years and will be okay during this time. We did not overspend and have saved enough for the bad times. The young ones who are trying to get a job as an apprentice are going to have a hard time and that is who I feel sorry for.

Obviously it was unfortunate and possibly a bit irresponsible to take on 4 apprentices when even in 2004 the danger signs were there (particularly in the housing market - there was even a bit of a downturn during that year if I remember correctly).

And yes - they should have done some research into the career they were entering into (and the stability of the company they were working for) - and saved some cash.

Ultimately I think it comes down a choice for you - will you further risk your financial security to help them? A really unpleasant decision to make I agree but they are young and will probably bounce back (and you did your best for them I'm sure).

In the last downturn in the early 90s my current company shed 20% of its staff and made most of the rest reapply for their jobs (I found about this within the first week of my job by asking one of the longer serving members of staff). I reckon that's fairly stable as companies go - but it made me decide to save a year's worth of income as a buffer and continue to diversify my skillset and experience. As things stand now I could probably survive at least five years without any additional income - and perhaps indefinitely in the other half's home country.

Prepare for the worst - hope for the best. Be kind to small animals (and apprentices if you can afford it)

Kez100

in the 80s90s didn't construction workers all go to Germany? Hence Auf Wiedersehen Pet. They've been moving for work since time in memorial.

thriftybabe

$$$ wrote: »

Obviously it was unfortunate and possibly a bit irresponsible to take on 4 apprentices when even in 2004 the danger signs were there (particularly in the housing market - there was even a bit of a downturn during that year if I remember correctly).

And yes - they should have done some research into the career they were entering into (and the stability of the company they were working for) - and saved some cash.

Ultimately I think it comes down a choice for you - will you further risk your financial security to help them? A really unpleasant decision to make I agree but they are young and will probably bounce back (and you did your best for them I'm sure).

In the last downturn in the early 90s my current company shed 20% of its staff and made most of the rest reapply for their jobs (I found about this within the first week of my job by asking one of the longer serving members of staff). I reckon that's fairly stable as companies go - but it made me decide to save a year's worth of income as a buffer and continue to diversify my skillset and experience. As things stand now I could probably survive at least five years without any additional income - and perhaps indefinitely in the other half's home country.

Prepare for the worst - hope for the best. Be kind to small animals (and apprentices if you can afford it)

I agree we should not have taken on so many apprentices at the one time. I would like to emphasise that I was against this and it has caused many an argument between myself and OH.

To be fair there has been no problem with the stability of the Company until now. We have had a marked increase year on year on business and there would be no reason for these apprentices to predict that there would be a slow down in the market.

Our Company has not debt so we are in a good position. We have cash in the Business bank to pay ourselves wages for 2 years. In addition we have our own personal savings that would give us additional monies for another couple of years should we have no income. I know we will be alright.

However, we have a Manager whom I know lives week to week. He has a small house and a small mortgage but I know he will have no savings. He thinks he will be alright. We had a meeting to tell them how things are but he still thinks he will be alright. He has worked for us since we started the business and has never been out of work. He obviously thinks we can pull work out of our back side but unfortunately can't.

Our decisions are when to cut the staff. We do not want to hold off too long if things get really bad but we also do not want to let them go too soon for the sake of their livelihoods.

By the way for those that you have followed my other threads we have managed to get one contract and the OH is meeting with someone on Monday regards the other contract;) Please keep your fingers crossed as if we get this one then we can hopefully keep MOST or all of our staff for another 6 months.

John_Pierpoint

It's the economy stupid


Let us ignore the meeja wannabees of both sexes, there are a lot of other people out of touch with reality here.

Britain is going to be in a real mess over the next few years.
Brown will try to get re-elected rather than do what the country needs.
Cameron will walk it provided not too many Tories are caught eating babies.
Those with no economic muscle, especially pensioners & school leavers, will see a 10+ % reduction in living standards.

[I'm sure Naomi & those nice people at Microsoft will be please to get this free publicity, as I cannot work out how to link to yesterday's news on their web site - Naomi seems to be writing some good stuff].


Is the future bright for graduates?

By Naomi Caine
June 18 2008
Get a degree and get ahead. That's the theory, at least. And many final year students will be hoping to put it into practice when they graduate this summer. After all, graduates on average have better job prospects and earn more than their colleagues who left school at 16 or 18.
Graduates won't get stuck in a dreary job in a supermarket. Instead they can look forward to running a multinational company or manipulating markets in the heady world of global finance. They are paid well, too. In a lifetime, the average graduate can expect to earn about £160,000 more than the typical non-graduate.
But is the future really so bright? Or are this year's graduates more likely to be slaves to the economy than masters of the universe?
Graduates: are you optimistic about the future?
Lesson in Economics 101
Let's look at the popular professions. A record number of final-year students are hoping to join a City bank when they leave university this summer, according to the latest report by High Fliers Research. The UK Graduate Careers Survey 2008 reveals that one student in eight from the class of 2008 hopes to land a graduate job in investment banking - only a career in the media is a more popular choice.
Five signs of a great work place
Sadly, they might be disappointed. Banks and other financial institutions have been battered by economic storms and the City is expecting between 10,000 and 40,000 job losses by the end of the year.
The CBI warned earlier this week that more than 200,000 people will lose their jobs by the end of 2009 as the economy takes a turn for the worse. It predicts that the number of people out of work will rise to a 10-year high of 1.89 million by the end of next year, 50,000 more than it predicted in March. Not surprisingly, workers in the building trade and people in the financial services industry are likely to be hit hardest by the job cuts.
Recession worries
The CBI was quick to dismiss talk of a recession. Richard Lambert, the director-general, said: "It is important to remember this is not a forecast for recession. Back in the early 1990s, we had a prolonged period of plummeting consumer demand and there were large job cuts across the board. These days, firms are leaner and more efficient and our economy's reach is far more global. We should avoid believing a recession is inevitable, or talk ourselves into unnecessary trouble."
But many students are worried. More than half (59%) who are due to graduate this year fear that a potential recession could hit their job prospects, according to Accenture, the consultants. In fact, the economic downturn is already making things difficult: more than two-thirds of final-year students have yet to find a job.
Four surprisingly well-paid jobs anyone could do
Graduate pay
Graduate salaries are also starting to suffer. The median, or midpoint, starting salary of £20,100 last year was just 3% higher than the figure for 2006. By comparison, average earnings in the economy as a whole rose by 3.5%, according to a survey by Employment Review.
The best-paid jobs are in private-sector services companies, which offered a median starting salary of £22,000, followed by manufacturing and production firms, at £20,000. Graduate starting salaries were lowest in public sector organisations.
If you are a bread head, you should find a job in a private sector consultancy or IT firm, where you could expect to earn a starting salary of £23,487 and £23,167 respectively.
Find your dream job after graduation
But don't try and talk your way to a better deal. Most employers see graduate starting salaries as non-negotiable, with just one in four (26%) prepared to discuss rates. Just over half (58%) also operate a single starting salary for all graduates within the organisation.
The Employment Review's findings are broadly in line with graduate salary surveys published by careers website Graduate Prospects, which identified a median figure of £18,000, and the Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR), whose headline figure was £23,500.
More graduates for each job
The relatively modest wage increase might have something to do with supply and demand, because there are an awful lot of graduates. Some 7.7 million people in the workforce already have a degree or equivalent qualification. So do employers need the extra 185,000 graduates who flood onto the market each year?
The supply is unlikely to dry up any time soon. UCAS figures show that applications to universities in England for 2008 are at an all-time high. Numbers are up over 7% on this time last year - that's at least 20,700 more applications. The rise follows a record number of applications for 2007 and is higher than was widely expected.
The surge in numbers is partly down to the sheer force of political will. In 1999 Tony Blair announced that 50% of people under the age of 30 should be university educated by 2010. We are getting close to the target: about 43% of the under-30s have now been to university, up from 39% in 2000.
But some employers wonder whether we have sacrificed quality for quantity. They complain of graduates that lack basic skills in numeracy and literacy, as well as motivation or business awareness. So they are reluctant to pay a premium salary.
Unrealistic expectations
It might come as a shock to many graduates. Final-year students expect to earn an average of £22,700 when they start work and £39,900 after five years in employment. One in six is banking on a starting salary of £30,000 or more, and a quarter think they will be earning at least £50,000 a year within five years.
Don't forget debt. The typical graduate leaves university with debts of £15,000. And the debts drag down their income, making it more difficult to buy a house - if it weren't tricky enough already.
The number of first-time buyers is at all-time low as they struggle with high house prices, hefty moving costs, increasing mortgage rates and tougher lending policies. The rates on fixed mortgages, for example, have climbed to a 10-year high of 6.75%. And you can't get a 100% mortgage any more, unless you can persuade your parents to act as guarantors.
Pipe dreams
So it's testament to their delusion that 54% of students believe they will be able to buy a house within five years of leaving university. James Crocker, an independent financial adviser with Endsleigh Financial Independent Tailoring, said: "It seems highly unrealistic that a graduate with approximately £15,000 of debt will be able to save anywhere near enough for a deposit to buy a house within five years in the current mortgage market."
Endsleigh has calculated that a graduate on a salary of £19,000 would have a maximum of £126 a month left over after living expenses, rent, student loan repayments, utility bills and pension payments to save for a deposit on a house. So it would take approximately seven years to build up the deposit to buy a home worth £190,000.
The government believes that higher education is one of the most important investments a young person can make. But I wonder whether today's graduates will get a good return on their investment.


Top Jobs:
Men
1. Investment banking
2. Accountancy
3. Management consulting
4. Engineering
5. Science, research & development
6. Media
7. Marketing
8. Teaching
9. Law
10. Finance
Women
1. Teaching
2. Media
3. Charity or voluntary work
4. Marketing
5. Science, research & development
6. Law
7. Accountancy
8. Management consulting
9. Human resources
10. Investment banking
Source: The UK Graduate Careers Survey 2008, High Fliers Research

PasturesNew

I'm an innocent.
Save me.

$$$_12

thriftybabe wrote: »

By the way for those that you have followed my other threads we have managed to get one contract and the OH is meeting with someone on Monday regards the other contract;) Please keep your fingers crossed as if we get this one then we can hopefully keep MOST or all of our staff for another 6 months.

Good luck and fingers crossed.

thriftybabe

$$$ wrote: »

Good luck and fingers crossed.

Appreciate it. Will keep everything cross just in case!