My Energy use Diary

danjackson999

cw18 wrote: »

No, it sounds like your gas boiler is only heating your radiators.

The water tank is heating on the electricity, although there's a (vague) possibility it's controlled by the timer on your control panel.

I certainly wouldn't want it on heating the water 24/7, which it will be doing if it's not hooked up to the timer on the control panel :eek:


ETA: My water tank heats from my gas boiler, but 20 minutes in the morning is enough to do one lot of washing up and one shower/hair-wash without any problems. Any extra use and I have to boost for a short while (15-20 mins). If you're heating it for 4 hours (seem to recall you said this earlier in the thread ) you should have enough for loads of use.......

The other things that may pull on it are your dish-washer (never had one, so don't know how most are plumbed) and your washing machine. The washer I have now is cold fill only, but the previous 2 were hot and cold (so I'd have had to boost for a shower after using the washer)

It seems that the tank does get heated by the boiler but aslo gets heated by the immersion if thats even possible.If the tank is being heated from the elctric then why does the boiler fire up when the heating comes on.

If i heat up the tank for 4 hours a day will the water stay hot in the tank for use all day? Will i use less electric by having the boiler on for 4 hours a day with no immersion or having boiler on for 2 hours and keeping the immersion on constantly.

Also regarding the thermostat for the heating if i dont have it around 25C the house does not get very hot at all and you can barely notice the heating is on.

cw18

danjackson999 wrote: »

It seems that the tank does get heated by the boiler but aslo gets heated by the immersion if thats even possible.If the tank is being heated from the elctric then why does the boiler fire up when the heating comes on.

if one shower drained all the hot while the boiler was on but the immersion switch was off, then the boiler is NOT heating your water. The boiler will always kick in when your heating is on, as the hot water tank is totally seperate from your radiators.

If i heat up the tank for 4 hours a day will the water stay hot in the tank for use all day?

My water heats for a short burst around 6am. If I shower that's normally by 8am (I normally 'strip wash' as it also uses less water, and I'm on a water meter too - which I suspect you will be), but I don't wash the pots until 6pm or thereabouts..... and there's always enough hot left to do this (and I do mean hot rather than 'tepid'). If you all took baths immediately after the end of the 4 hour heat-up, then you will find it doesn't stay hot as long though (you pull hot out, which is replaced with cold. and the fresh cold mixes with the remaining hot, hence reducing the temperature of it)

Will i use less electric by having the boiler on for 4 hours a day with no immersion or having boiler on for 2 hours and keeping the immersion on constantly.

IF (and it's a big if) your boiler IS heating your water, then after 4 hours from that you shouldn't have any need for using the electric immersion. The fact the electric heater is potentially on 24/7 means the boiler would never have any work to do anyway. My choice would be to heat water for a short while on gas and leave the electric heater alone if you could.

Also regarding the thermostat for the heating if i dont have it around 25C the house does not get very hot at all and you can barely notice the heating is on.

that's what jumpers and socks are for You'll probably find everyone on this thread puts on layers of clothes before reaching for the heating controls:A

danjackson999

annie123 wrote: »

Dan CW18 is right, your gas boiler is heating your rads and the immersion is heating your hot water,

Call the letting agent and tell them the timer does not work, you have found out hard way etc,

Depending on the arrangement they have with your landlord, one of the following will happen;
1. if its full management, then letting agent will send an electrician to fix it
2. if partial management, they will inform the owner who will arrange to fix it
3. if find tenant only agreement, they will tell you its nothing to do with them

If its the last one then you should have contact details for the owner and let them know yourself and they will fix it.
If anyone seems slow to respond just let them know you will expect them to cover your elec bill etc etc.

No need for this amount of energy to be used

I did speak to the letting agent today and i know that they are in charge of all problems that occue with the property. They said that they can send someone out but if there is no problem with the system then i will be charged for it so i need to make sure that there is a problem.

Should i keep the immersion off for now and see if by putting the heating on from the control panel through the boiler for a few hours whether it does heat the water up.

Do you think if there is a problem with the house then i may be able to get the estate agents to pay some of my electric bill?

cw18

danjackson999 wrote: »

Do you think if there is a problem with the house then i may be able to get the estate agents to pay some of my electric bill?

Agent - no

Landlord - possibly, but only if they were aware there was a problem they did nothing to rectify and didn't warn you (directly or via the agent).

Seriously doubt you'd have much luck though

danjackson999

cw18 wrote: »

if one shower drained all the hot while the boiler was on but the immersion switch was off, then the boiler is NOT heating your water. The boiler will always kick in when your heating is on, as the hot water tank is totally seperate from your radiators.

My water heats for a short burst around 6am. If I shower that's normally by 8am (I normally 'strip wash' as it also uses less water, and I'm on a water meter too - which I suspect you will be), but I don't wash the pots until 6pm or thereabouts..... and there's always enough hot left to do this (and I do mean hot rather than 'tepid'). If you all took baths immediately after the end of the 4 hour heat-up, then you will find it doesn't stay hot as long though (you pull hot out, which is replaced with cold. and the fresh cold mixes with the remaining hot, hence reducing the temperature of it)

IF (and it's a big if) your boiler IS heating your water, then after 4 hours from that you shouldn't have any need for using the electric immersion. The fact the electric heater is potentially on 24/7 means the boiler would never have any work to do anyway. My choice would be to heat water for a short while on gas and leave the electric heater alone if you could.

that's what jumpers and socks are for You'll probably find everyone on this thread puts on layers of clothes before reaching for the heating controls:A

I only have the hot water coming on once a day from 6am-8.30am that is set up on the heating controls but iv always had hot water so never really thought about it so maybe the immersion has just been heating it up the whole time.

When i turned the immersion off and then my friend had a shower the boiler was not turned on as like i said we only have it on once in the morning.

From the control system i can control the times for heating and hot water. I never have the heating on but when i do press boost all it does heat up is the radiators. The hot water is the only thing that is set to come on at a certain time.

In a way its pointless then heating up the whole tank because as soon as you use a bit its replaced with cold water and then the hot will run out alot quicker.

What i dont want to do is end up with an extremely high gas bill because i have started using the boiler to heat the water.
Do you think that while the immersion was on the boiler had also been heating up the tank and therefore doing a job that was not needed or would the immersion have told the boiler sort of thing that it didnt need to be heated up.

cw18

danjackson999 wrote: »

Do you think that while the immersion was on the boiler had also been heating up the tank and therefore doing a job that was not needed or would the immersion have told the boiler sort of thing that it didnt need to be heated up.

There should be a thermostat somewhere on the water tank, and when the water is at the required temperature neither system should attempt to heat it any hotter. So if the electric immersion is on 24/7 the water will always be at the required temperature (subject to drops immediately after pulling hot off which has been replaced with cold), which means the gas is unlikely to ever have to heat the water..... Your controls will tell it to look and see if needed, but if the water is at the required temperature it shouldn't actually do anything (or use any gas)

annie123

Dan, I bet you some home made twinks that your usage will be lowered with the immersion heater off!,
and I dont give away twinks easily!!!

I also note you say you havent had the heating on yet, I hope when you said you had been taking gas readings you aren't using £35 pm worth of gas already.

gas is cheaper to heat water than that immersion (which is just a giant kettle), and according to the pics you posted earlier, the boiler is, as per my link, designed for heaing only, not hot water.

what you appear to have is;
a boiler for heating
an immersion heater for hot water
and a control box for box.....which does not as per my previous comments, seem to be working

turn the immersion off at the switch. take reading
turn back on again 1 hour later, take reading
this is the same as you have done previously and said you used a whole unit in that hour if I remember rightly.
test this at the same time as the last time you did it.

danjackson999

annie123 wrote: »

Dan, I bet you some home made twinks that your usage will be lowered with the immersion heater off!,
and I dont give away twinks easily!!!

I also note you say you havent had the heating on yet, I hope when you said you had been taking gas readings you aren't using £35 pm worth of gas already.

gas is cheaper to heat water than that immersion (which is just a giant kettle), and according to the pics you posted earlier, the boiler is, as per my link, designed for heaing only, not hot water.

what you appear to have is;
a boiler for heating
an immersion heater for hot water
and a control box for box.....which does not as per my previous comments, seem to be working

turn the immersion off at the switch. take reading
turn back on again 1 hour later, take reading
this is the same as you have done previously and said you used a whole unit in that hour if I remember rightly.
test this at the same time as the last time you did it.

Im really starting to get annoyed with myself at not being able to crack this. Believe it or not i am actually quite intelligent and i think the problem is not being told in a actual situation and im trying to take something in that is completely new to me over the internet.
Im sorry that i keep going on and if you feel there is not much more information or help you can give i will understand.
I used to put the heating on quite alot just by pressing the boost button whenever the house was cold. So i have used to heating a bit in the past and maybe thats why i have been getting bills of £35 a month although thinking about it now it does seem quite high considering most of my system is electric.

You explained what you think my system is. What i dont get is if you think the immersion is heating up the water then if i turn the switch off then how exactly will the water get hot because you think the boiler does not heat up the water.
So i might save units by turning the immersion off but then i will have no hot water.

Tomorrow i will turn everything off in the house for one hour including the immersion switch and take the reading and then i will turn it back on for one hour and take the reading and see what the difference is.

cw18

Had another thought as I turned in last night........

Is your house one of several built at the same time? If so, do you know any of the neighbours to speak to casually? I'm part of a fairly big estate, and as new people move in I know that 'longer serving' residents are more than happy to explain the 'quirks' of the properties to the new neighbours. Whilst things like ovens may be different between properties (depending on whether upgrades were taken or not), the heating system is identical for all of us. So if you could find a helpful neighbour they could probably explain it to you in a 'hands on' fashion

setmefree2

Dan this thread might help.

The Cheapest way to use an immersion heater.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=53280