Cashback Price Comparison Services Discussion

energyhelpline_company_representative

Dear all contributors,

The problems seem to be that there are clear differences between the way in which results tables are presented and that is why you have been getting diffferent tables.

The default energylinx table excludes all non-standard and direct tariffs this means that you will not be able to find Telecom Plus or Atlantic Direct tariffs unless you select this option which I doubt that many people select.

The default uswitch table excludes all suppliers below a certain service rating hence you cannot again see Telecom Plus or Atlantic Direct by default as they have been give 1* and 2* service ratings. To get to these you need to read the top paragraph and then find an option within this to show all suppliers irrespective.

So the default results tables for both energylinx, uswitch and energyhelpline (are actually pretty much identical) Scottish Power Online often at the top followed by PowerGen Online (which we added as soon as we got the tariffs this week) and then often npower and ScottishPower.

Now when you go to non-standard results tables on energylinx and uswitch as described above you can then get to Atlantic Direct and Telecom Plus. However how many people atually would ever get to this I think is highly doubtful.

If you go to our non-standard table = 'All tariff types' you will find Atlantic Direct often at the top. We have at the moment listed it at the moment as an internet-only tariff -we did this because we used to list on the standard table but we had some many complaints from people not being able to get through when we gave the phone number out that we decided that in practice to sign up was internet only as as far as we knew you could only do this through https://www.atlanticeg.co.uk and https://www.ukpower.co.uk.

In the spirit of taking things on board and if people think it is better I am happy to change our results table to the energylinx model. Is this the preferred option?? I will also ask Telecom Plus to send us their tariffs for and include them like energylinx on our site.

Kind regards,

Mark Todd.
Energy helpline

energyhelpline_company_representative

Dear All,

Just having read Martin's response above I hope that by making the changes proposed to energyhelpline (directly above) to what would seem to me like the most appropriate model that you feel Atlantic Direct and Telecom Plus issues will be resolved.

In terms of Staywarm, Martin, I would like also to create a fair solution which works.

We can actually do comparisons against StayWarm at the moment for people if they call EnergyHelpline and ask. We have done this in particular for British Legion members as we work with them through switchandgive.com.

So what do we do at the mo? There are two scenarios:

1. If someone calls the call centre and says they want information on Staywarm we give them PowerGen's phone number explaining that we cannot do them a price comparison as PowerGen's charges are related to the number of bedrooms in the house and (I believe) a number of factors which have not been disclosed to us. In fact, if anyone knows how PowerGen price StayWarm so that we could tell callers the cost I would be extremely interested to know.

2. If someone calls the call centre and they are on StayWarm we can do a comparison. What we have is a series of matrices provided to us by an independent energy consultancy. This gives the average kWh pa usage of each differenct type of house by number of bedrooms and occupants.
- hence we find out whether a house is terraced, detached, etc.; how many occupants are in the house, how many bedrooms it has and how it is heated (electricity or gas) from this we can predict their standard yearly electricity and gas kWh usage levels. Where the chepest option can save them 20-40% off StayWarm we then advise them to consider mving off StayWarm.

As a bit of background to StayWarm - it was started by TXU who were bought by Powergen during the summer. Many people with 3 bed houses were on about £37 / month. After the takover we have had many people call us to say this price was changed to £53/month. (i.e. a 45% price increase!!!!) These are often pensioners on standard pensions too.

Hence many have switched through us back to a standard tariff saving sometimes up to 50% on standard usage levels.

As a rule of thumb StayWarm is generally good for people with 1or2 bedrooms in detached bungalows or houses (these let out more heat than other houses) or for people who just want to have a very hot house or hae very bad insulation.

But, to take a scenario, I handled, a person was living in a 3 bed house and was being charged charged £53/month (£636 per year). His spend predicted by us by switching to his cheapest stanadard tariff was about £400pa. NB. The average spend of an average person who switchesto their cheapest suplier is about £320pa!

Sorry to bore you all but just to say if people have strong feelings about StayWarm we are happy to try to construct a service to do comparisons for them to advise on them switching to it.

Kind regards,

Mark Todd.

Jackie_Welsh

It would appear that a question has been posed as to whether other price comparison services should replicate our model.

Whilst we indeed welcome the comment we would recommend that really the only model to adopt is that of the Energywatch guidance note on the subject.

All tariffs should be listed by any Energywatch accredited website and we have been campaigning for some time to see every price comparison service list every single tariff regardless of their own commercial arrangements with the supplier.

If the view is taken to use our model then it may be prudent to wait. Next week will see some changes on the Energylinx website and if the decision is to reflect our model then we would suggest waiting until these changes are launched.

In the meantime we stand by one of original posts that if the consumer is searching out the cheapest price then they should do a price comparison and if some kind of promotion is available then they should ideally discount the value of that promotion to ascertain the best price available.

On the subject of pricing and who buys what, currently Energylinx receives around 14,000 unique users to our website per day.

We find that only around 40% of consumers are seeking the ultimate cheapest option.

At the moment the top three suppliers on price tend to include Telecom Plus, Atlantic Electric & Gas and ScottishPower.

A question was also posed regarding those consumers who search all tariffs on the Energylinx website - currently this sits at just over 92% users.

Hope this helps.


Jackie
CST Team
Energylinx
07.01.2004

energyhelpline_company_representative

Jackie,

What do you mean by search all tariffs - do you mean your standard results table?

Just to clarify, we would not totally replicate your model just that we would return tariffs against your option of selecting 'direct and non-standard' options.

Kind regards,

Mark.

Jackie_Welsh

Mark

Our view is that whenever a domestic customer carries out a search then the standard results should list all tariffs available currently available to them.

Customers who wish to view say, Internet only accounts, should be able to seperate these out by clicking on an appropriate search button.

We have lobbied very hard that the standard listing of all tariffs is a mandatory requirement of all Energywatch accredited price comparison services.

For some background we had been asked by Energywatch to remove the Telecom Plus tariffs from our results tables as they were regarded as a what they named a 'bundled tariff', but our view is that by incorporating their Utility Warehouse Charges into the overall price presented then we provide the domestic customer with best practise information.

We added the click button for 'direct or unusual tariffs' last week - but as of next week all tariffs will be listed again within the standard results. That said we have transferred and continue to transfer many clients to the likes of Telecom Plus since May 2003.

Hope this helps.


Ken Geddes
using Jackie's Account
Energylinx
7 January 2004

energyhelpline_company_representative

Hi it's becoming a bit of a convention

I agree absolutely agree that all should be listed. And as I'm sure you can see we are doing as yourselves at the mo bar Telecom Plus.

Thanks for reaffirming the energywatch position as they have again restated to me that we will breach their rules if we include Telecom Plus. ???

So to be honest, I'm not sure what we should do with Telecom Plus. Having read Martin's note I am concerned about this £30 cancellation fee as no one else charges this and it is really a hidden cost.

Just to clarify Jackie are you guys at energyliinx actually signing up customers to Telecom plus or just showing their tariffs?

All the best,

Mark Todd

MSE_Martin

Hi Price Comparison bods. Just to say im really happy to see the discussion going on here. I think it has the word TRANSPARENCY written all over it - so people can see how it really works. Thank you all for responding. PS Mark the TP £30 cancellation charge for gas was dropped from the t&cs recently after i made represenation to Charles Wigoder.

Martin

COS

Martin why you are tipping these sites when it has been so obvious for the past year that they are misinforming us and why are they allowed to keep trading by offering bribes.  

Hi Guys

Thankyou all for the huge response with such speed too , I for one appreciate the fact that this site allows for open debate of which aims to profide the best solution for all.


Chris

System

When it comes to underwear and pricing structures I'm all for TRANSPARENCY

Martin - how much exactly do you earn on each cashback switch?

Lisa

Jackie_Welsh

Mark

You asked whether or not we were transferring customers to Telecom Plus.

The answer is yes, we have been transferring customers to Telecom Plus since as early as May 2003.

To date we have no negative customer service feedback regarding their services.

Hope this helps.


Ken Geddes
using Jackie Welsh's account
Energylinx
8 January 2004