Cashback Price Comparison Services Discussion

System

Ross, please don't take this the wrong way, though I would appreciate an honest answer. Are you a Telecom Plus distributor?

Smartasss

Lewis_Gerolemou wrote:

I have used Energylinx comparisons with high and very high usage profiles and savings (especially for electricity) can be made there too withT+.

The flaw when dealing with these price comparison sites (some or all of which appear to rely on commission from the suppliers) is they can be very inaccurate.

It is difficult not to be cynical and to suggest that their inaccuracies vary with the level of commission they receive at any particular time.

Energylinx last week were recommending Basic Power as cheapest in comparisons - closer inspection revealed that despite Energylinx promising on site that their prices were accurate, and had been checked that day, they were using Basic's old prices which had been increased back on 6/11/03.

The previous week Energylinx did have the updated prices for Basic Power in their comparisons, and another supplier was shown to be the cheapest yet they were able to revert to the old ones making the average visitor to their site think Basic was the place to switch to! How could this happen??

It could only happen if someone at Energylinx is able to alter their database, and change the data! Today, Basic Power prices are correct at Energylinx!!

Perhaps the best solution is to maintain true independence and do all the donkey work oneself, checking out the various suppliers prices and doing ones own calculations, rather than chasing cashback from comparison sites which might turn out to be fools gold!

System

Ross,

Thanks for your points about Energy Helpline. As one of the managers of Energy Helpline, we take all complaints about tariffs very seriously. Let me step through your points one by one:

1. Telecom Plus - the current Telecom Plus tariff is a bundled tariff as it includes a yearly membership fee and also discounts dependent on how many of their services you buy. Under energywatch rules we are not allowed to list bundled tariffs. Some sites show the old Telecom Plus tariff called (gas/elec only) this has now been withdrawn by Telecom Plus and hence the information a number of other price comparison services are showing is actually wrong. We have a provisional deal in place to carry Telecom Plus and hence would be delighted to show them however energywatch rules do not allow this.

2. Atlantic - we list the Atlantic Standard tariff - if you look through the results table you will find it close to the bottom. This tariff used to be cheap however it is not any more because it includes household insurance for plumbing etc. within its charges which has forced up teh prices. Noted in the tariff is the fact that if you sign up direct on Atlantic's website you can get further discounts.

3. By PowerGen - I assume that you mean the PowerGen Online tariff that is carried by uswitch only - this is a strange tariff in that until the New Year it is currently on trial and can be only be switched to via the uswitch website. As a trial tariff PowerGen advised ourselves and other services not to show the tariff. They do not even show it on their website!!! PowerGen are due to make an announcement shortly on whether the tariff will be made permanent. We expect to be given permission to show the tariff and should be doing so from the New Year when it will be made publicly available.

I hope this clarifies things. It is a difficult market place at the moment to make sense of however we do believe at Energy Helpline we do this as much as possible.

Kind regards,

Mark Todd

MSE_Martin

I love this website (lucky really I suppose). What i like is the detail of this conversation above. It's very difficult to get that elsewhere.

I too would say ultimately for those willing to make the effort and use the spreadsheets, finding your own cheapest tariff is the most accurate way.

However the truth is, I cannot write an article that way. It's a question of balance, most people will be massively better off using the price comparison services than not using them at all. Remember 70% of people are still on the old incumbent suppliers tariffs (a staggering fact).

Therefore i consider my responsibility as a MSE

is

i. To push and drive and persuade people to investigate switching. Price comparison mechanisms are the easy way - and i happily recommend them

ii. To take it on a step for 'advanced money saving', hence the price comparison 'comparison'. I deliberately put this on a separate page as i didnt want to confuse the main message

iii. To provide a place for debating the finess of the issues - so people who want the sharpened knife-edge discussion on prices - and that's exactly whats going on here.

All in all I think all angles are covered and that makes me glad and makes me want this discussion to continue and flourish - all education and info is great.

martin

Smartasss

I wholeheartedly agree with MSE Martin - folk who haven't changed are much better advised to use a comparison site than do nothing!

My post was by way of a balance to the Telecom+ Representative's post which quoted Energylinx as a way of confirming that his company's prices gave savings across the board.

My evidence is that their (Energylinx) prices are subject to 'human error', and shouldn't be used as a truly independent reference in the way that the Telecom+ Rep was trying to imply (ie "it's not T+ saying this, but Energylinx")

System

Emma

In response to your question as to whether or not I represent Telecom+.

I am a senior lecturer on Energy in one of the English Universities. I am also an advisor to the Commission of European Regulators so I as you will see I do not have any axe to grind, although Glastonian you obviously felt I did.

I am currently preparing a detailed letter to Energywatch re the issues I raised in my earlier posts, and no Mark you have not clarified any of my concerns.

Glastonian invites me to post my a copy of my letter of complaint in the bulletin board, rather than do this I will copy it to Martin, that way he can decide whether or not to post an edited version as it will be very analytical and given what I have seen to date very hard hitting.

I would however point out that I am very much for the concept of price comparison services, but only when the results provided are correct.

I do agree with Martin on his comments that something is better than nothing, but only if that advice is not at the expense of the actual consumer.

Galstonian

Ross,

I found the tone of your posts was (and still is) one of accusation. I believe that most of the comparison sites have errors and omissions. I am not as convinced as many seem to be that this is entirely driven by their desire for customers to switch to particular suppliers sheerly because it benefits the comparison site. I can't help but think that you should never attribute to malice what can readily be explained by incompetence. I also feel a bit of sympathy for anyone who seeks to determine the best deal for everyone since they are really at the mercy of the suppliers to present the information in a usable form and in a timely manner. I would suggest that this is not being done and sometimes this information contains its own errors. We get enough reports of various companies being unable to prepare bills, why should this be any different?

My own 2p worth - there should be a standard for quoting for fuel prices, whether this is set by the regulators or is a voluntary standard is secondary to the argument. Buying gas and electricity should be at least as transparent as buying a litre of petrol (which is hardly definitive but seems to work).

I wonder if you should perhaps post an Article instead?

Jackie_Welsh

The last post suggests the possibility of some type of standard being set re the consistency of pricing information presented by the companies within this market.

We wholeheartedly agree with this concept and would urge anyone currently lobbying Government or energywatch to recommend this concept also.

To keep you abreast of developments a meeting has been called by SimplyEnergy in January to discuss the possible formation of a Trade Association, which has rules and regulations approved by the Office of Fair Trading. We understand that this will be an additional standard to the regulatory requirements currently imposed by energwatch.

If formed, this will undoubtedly help tighten up on the current situation. Energylinx will be promoting the concept of ISO9001 to ensure that quality standards are adhered to rigously.

Those invited to the initial meeting include:

https://www.energylinx.co.uk
https://www.moneyexpert.com
https://www.saveonyourbills.co.uk
https://www.simplyenergy.com
https://www.switchandgive.com
https://www.theenergyshop.com
https://www.unravelit.com
https://www.uswitch.com

We will make sure that this board is kept abreast of developments.


Ken Geddes
using Jackie Welsh's account
Energylinx
8 December 2003

Lewis_Gerolemou

Smartass, I used Energylinx because it included all 3 T+ tariffs. I double checked their figures before I posted using the current prices for my area. I am unfortunate in that I use a lot of energy so my calculations were based on my own consumption. The results were exactly the same as Energylinx for dual fuel and gas only. There was a difference of £1 for electricity only. I would be happy to show you the details.
I am not aware of Energylinx receiving commission from the company, I do know that in the past T+ refused to make payments to comparison companies. I do not know if this policy has changed- I will see if I can find out.
I agree with what has been said by others on this site: use the comparison sites and then check the figures yourself.

Lewis Gerolemou Independent Distributor for Telecom Plus

P.S. Great Debate

Smartasss

The point I was trying to make was that somehow, someone at Energylinx was able last week to manipulate their database to show Basic's prices made them the cheapest (by altering their prices to their pre-increase levels). So had you visited their site on 11th, you would have found Basic cheapest - though the data used by Energylinx was false!

I have noticed that Energylinx have posted in this thread, commenting on issues raised of direct concern to them, so I wonder why they have not commented on the serious matter which has been raised over the mystery of them manipulating Basic's prices!