How Much Cheaper Is Eco 7?

Newbird

Has anyone, (I'm sure they must have) worked out whether it is much cheaper to be on eco7 tariff? or should I say at what point does it become better? how much elec do you have to be using at night/low time to make it worthwhile??

I am on eco 7, but my sons just got new house and wondering whether to switch to eco7 tariff or not. It would only be worthwhile for a significant saving, to outweigh for example, the inconvenience of washing/drying at night time.

....yeh, I know, inconvenience shouldn't affect money saving, but they are boys, want that particualr t-shirt washed/dried/ironed, like now...they would not wait until night time even if on eco7, so I fear they would use more expensive power at the high tariff during the day for convenience.

Hope I'm making sense here...it's getting late! bed beckons now, (Martin'e kept me up for ages last few days!) check back tomorrow in the hope that some of you night owls on eco7 will still be around programming your washers...etc.

lyla

We have economy 7. it was allready installed when we moved into the house, we dont use it enough so are presently losing out. i have been told that you really need to use 20% at night time to make it worthwhile. Ive got timers for the dishwasher and washing machine and im really going to try and make it work for us but its a hassle isnt it? Also when the washing machine comes on early in the morning it sometimes wakes me up! which is not good.

rosscobley

It will prob cost him more as the day rate is higher on a e7 meter. will only be of use to him if he uses over 20% elec in the night.

Newbird

Thx Lyla n Ross, better go and check then. I'll also check if on mine I'm actually using 20% at night. I think I am tho, as d/washer and washer have timers and I do use them only at night.

Lyla, When I got new machines a few years ago, I did go for the quieter ones, purely for this reason. D/wash is in the kitchen Bosch, v quiet. My washer is in garage, Hoover whisper. It is quiet until the final last mad high speed spin.

It is a bit of an effort to get into it, but when you use night rate it is a third the cost of daytime rate, on mine anyway, so good saving to be made if you use it enough. The worst is when you are sooooo tired after after late hours on here and you realise you have to go set up the washer b4 you roll into bed!

Robert5988

The 'break even' point for most people is about 30% depending on your tariff.

Unless you have night storage heating it is quite difficult to make E7 pay.

paul_h

Robert5988 wrote:

The 'break even' point for most people is about 30% depending on your tariff.

Unless you have night storage heating it is quite difficult to make E7 pay.

This is incorrect - the break even point is much lower than this - daytime electricity on these tariffs is only about 3.5% higher, whilst the nightime rates are about 1/3 of the standard unit rate.

If you work out the figures, the break even point is actually below 10% of your total usage within that 7 hour period - when you take into account the appliances in your house which are running 24 hours per day, this is easily achievable. If you can operate power hungry appliances such as washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, etc., on timers during the e7 hours, you are into money saving territory.

As an electrician with 20+ yrs experience, I can assure you that these figures are correct. I bought a house many years ago with an economy 7 meter and considered having it removed - after doing the calculations I decided to leave it. It has saved me money every year since...

Robert5988

paul_h wrote:

This is incorrect - the break even point is much lower than this - daytime electricity on these tariffs is only about 3.5% higher, whilst the nightime rates are about 1/3 of the standard unit rate.

If you work out the figures, the break even point is actually below 10% of your total usage within that 7 hour period - when you take into account the appliances in your house which are running 24 hours per day, this is easily achievable. If you can operate power hungry appliances such as washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, etc., on timers during the e7 hours, you are into money saving territory.

As an electrician with 20+ yrs experience, I can assure you that these figures are correct. I bought a house many years ago with an economy 7 meter and considered having it removed - after doing the calculations I decided to leave it. It has saved me money every year since...

I fail to see the relevance of your 20 years as an electrician; it hardly qualifies you as an economist!! Simple arithmetic is all that is required.

There have been plenty of threads and articles that advise 30% as the break even point. See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=50817

Presumably you feel qualified to dismiss my input, and others, as incorrect on the basis of your tariff alone.

I am interested in your unequivocal statement that less than 10% is the break even point and that daytime rates are only 3.5% higher. Certainly with BG, Npower and Powergen there is a much bigger differential between E7 and daytime rates.

As you suggested “we should work out the figures”(you presumably think we haven’t done so) perhaps you would enlighten us with the name your Supplier/area and figures/tariffs on which you base your definitive statement.

If your break even point is below 10%(which I frankly doubt) I suggest your situation is atypical.

paul_h

Robert5988 wrote:

I fail to see the relevance of your 20 years as an electrician; it hardly qualifies you as an economist!! Simple arithmetic is all that is required.

There have been plenty of threads and articles that advise 30% as the break even point. See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=50817

Presumably you feel qualified to dismiss my input, and others, as incorrect on the basis of your tariff alone.

I am interested in your unequivocal statement that less than 10% is the break even point and that daytime rates are only 3.5% higher. Certainly with BG, Npower and Powergen there is a much bigger differential between E7 and daytime rates.

As you suggested “we should work out the figures”(you presumably think we haven’t done so) perhaps you would enlighten us with the name your Supplier/area and figures/tariffs on which you base your definitive statement.

If your break even point is below 10%(which I frankly doubt) I suggest your situation is atypical.

I was surprised by your rather vociferous reply, I did not simply pluck this figure from thin air - certainly in my case with my supplier the break even point is certainly below 10% with our levels of usage, which I don't think are atypical.

Indeed I agree that simple arithmetic is all that is required. I'm sorry that disclosing my profession is such a problem for you, I was merely indicating that I do have an understanding of the subject. I was not trying to condescend.

I certainly do not dismiss anyone's input either, it all adds to a lively discussion, I simply stated that your figure of 30% was incorrect. I was not making a 'definitive' statement as no calculation like this can apply to everyone's circumstances, I advise people to do the calculation for themselves rather than reading figures like 30% and writing it off as a non-starter.

If you would like to check my calculations, here they are - rather than use my own supplier, I have used one of your examples, NPOWER, as I have the figures for my area to hand (east midlands region). Even using one of your suggested suppliers, the break even works out below 11%.

I have used an annual usage of 5000kWh as an example, this seems to be about the average looking at the bills most board members seem to be paying, we actually use more than this which increases our saving (and reduces our break even point) on economy 7.

NPOWER STANDARD TARIFF (EMIDS REGION) -
First 728kWh @ 14.17p/kWh, then 5.7p/kWh

NPOWER ECONOMY 7 TARIFF (EMIDS REGION) -
First 728kWh @ 15.41p/kWh, then 5.9p/kWh - Night units @ 2.7p/kWh

Taking an representative domestic usage of 5000 kWh/annum,

On standard tariff, cost is -
728kWh x 14.18p = £103.23
4272kWh x 5.7p = £243.50
TOTAL = £346.73 per annum

On economy 7 tariff, assuming 11% usage at night, cost is -
728kWh x 15.41p = £112.18
3722kWh x 5.9p = £219.60
550kWh x 2.7p = £14.85
TOTAL = £346.63 per annum

All costings include VAT

The npower economy 7 tariff is cheaper at 11%, so the break even must be below 11%. If I have made an error here, I hold my hands up and apologise - but it looks right to me.

Perhaps you would like to post your calculations which arrive at 30%?

MATH

I do not have storage heaters but have had no trouble reaching 40% night usage in the winter by timing my DW, Washer, Dryer, BM etc to come on during off-peak hours and 60% in the summer when I also use econ 7 to heat the water while my aged gas boiler is turned off. I always assumed break even to be about 30% but will now go a check my own figures to see if it is a lot less.

Xbigman

When I tried a direct comparison using figures from uswitch my tarif (Powergen dual fuel online) didn't have an exact non E7 equivelant and it worked out cheaper no matter what % I used at night.

A more interesting question is:

I live alone, so is it cheaper to turn on the gas central heating at night or should I use a 1kw electric fire to heat whatever room I'm in?
Regards



X

paul_h

Xbigman wrote:

A more interesting question is:

I live alone, so is it cheaper to turn on the gas central heating at night or should I use a 1kw electric fire to heat whatever room I'm in?

Assuming you are on economy7 and you are thinking about overnight, gas is still far cheaper than economy7 off peak electricity. However, with electric you would only heating the one room... so although it's not easy to tell, I guess there's a good chance the electric option would be cheaper.

Don't forget that the 7 off peak hours don't generally start until between midnight and 2am, so any heating used before this would be charged at the higher rate.