How Much Cheaper Is Eco 7?

Robert5988

paul_h wrote:

I certainly do not dismiss anyone's input either, it all adds to a lively discussion, I simply stated that your figure of 30% was incorrect. I was not making a 'definitive' statement as no calculation like this can apply to everyone's circumstances, I advise people to do the calculation for themselves rather than reading figures like 30% and writing it off as a non-starter.

Perhaps you would like to post your calculations which arrive at 30%?

Paul,
Firstly on reflection my response should have been more temperate – so an apology is due.

If you look at my original post I did qualify my 30% break even figure by stating it was dependant on tariff.

Despite what you say above, your response baldly stated, without any qualification, that was my statement was incorrect, that the daytime tariff was only 3.5% higher and the break even point is below 10%. Re-read your post:-

“This is incorrect - the break even point is much lower than this - daytime electricity on these tariffs is only about 3.5% higher, whilst the nightime rates are about 1/3 of the standard unit rate.

If you work out the figures, the break even point is actually below 10% of your total usage within that 7 hour period - when you take into account the appliances in your house which are running 24 hours per day, this is easily achievable. If you can operate power hungry appliances such as washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, etc., on timers during the e7 hours, you are into money saving territory.

As an electrician with 20+ yrs experience, I can assure you that these figures are correct. I bought a house many years ago with an economy 7 meter and considered having it removed - after doing the calculations I decided to leave it. It has saved me money every year since...”

If that is not “dismissing anyone’s input” I don’t know what is.

I do not dispute your figures in that for those on the East Midlands NPower tariff break even point is 11% given your assumption of 5,000 kWh annual consumption.

However for those on Northern NPower tariff the break even point is over 30%.
Standard tariff is 13.58/7.85p. E7 is 18.15/9.41/2.82 - 728kWh threshold in both cases. The daytime rate is 19.9% higher on E7 rather than the 3.5% you stated.

If you take BG in the East Midlands the figures are(DD incl Vat)
13.299/6.893p and 17.532/9.127/1.951p with a threshold of 900 units.
The daytime rate is 32.4% higher.
The break even point is over 35%

Scottish Power(South Scotland) the break even point is 40%

There are literally hundreds of combinations tariffs when you take each supply company with all of its different areas. The situation is further complicated in that the break even point is affected by the annual consumption.

I have not necessarily selected suppliers to support my case as it would take far too long. However I suggest that the ‘ballpark’ figure of 30% for the break even point is far more representative than your unequivocal statement that it is “less than 10%”

On reflection would you not agree?

paul_h

Robert5988 wrote:

However for those on Northern NPower tariff the break even point is over 30%.
Standard tariff is 13.58/7.85p. E7 is 18.15/9.41/2.82 - 728kWh threshold in both cases. The daytime rate is 19.9% higher on E7 rather than the 3.5% you stated.

If you take BG in the East Midlands the figures are(DD incl Vat)
13.299/6.893p and 17.532/9.127/1.951p with a threshold of 900 units.
The daytime rate is 32.4% higher.
The break even point is over 35%

I have not necessarily selected suppliers to support my case as it would take far too long. However I suggest that the ‘ballpark’ figure of 30% for the break even point is far more representative than your unequivocal statement that it is “less than 10%”

On reflection would you not agree?

Thank you for your considered reply, I did accept that my original post did sound like a sweeping statement, a point I made clearer in my later post - the 10% break even was our own situation with our particular supplier, and was a statement of fact. You seem to be upset that I have said your 'ballpark' figure is incorrect, I cannot see how stating facts can dismiss anyone's input.

I do, however, take offence when you imply that I am telling a mistruth -

Robert5988 wrote:

perhaps you would enlighten us with the name your Supplier/area and figures/tariffs on which you base your definitive statement.

If your break even point is below 10%(which I frankly doubt)

Here is my supplier's tariffs so you can calculate it yourself -

Atlantic Electric & Gas 'Standard' DD
First 800kWh @ 9.21p/kWh, then 7.22p/kWh

Atlantic Electric & Gas 'Domestic Economy' DD
First 800kWh @ 10.22p/kWh, then 7.34p/kWh, night units 2.6p/kWh

You will find that in my case the break even is actually 5.6% night usage with 5000kWh/annum total usage, like I said originally - below 10%. I rounded it up to 10% as I accept my supplier's break-even point is low.

I still do not believe that 30% break even is representative.

Your choice of examples is interesting, there are some suppliers which do not encourage economy7 business and reflect this in their tariffs, BG being one of them - anyone on economy7 should obviously move to a supplier with a more competitive economy7 pricing structure. Some of these companies simply do not want the economy7 business as there is less profit to be made. I doubt BG's rates would even be viable for storage heating...

Your choice of Northern area tariffs from npower is also interesting - you have managed to select the single anomaly out of the 14 UK supply areas. In every other npower area, the differentials are broadly similar to the example I gave, and I would imagine the calculations would give a break even point in the same 'ballpark'. In fact, in 3 areas the npower economy7 follow-on day rate is lower than the standard tariff - in London area it is actually 6.7% lower!

In the case of Northern area only, I agree that you would have to carefully check the tariffs available from different suppliers to see if any savings could be made.

In response to your final statement, I have already accepted in a previous post that my statement cannot be 'definitive' and is based on my own situation, but on reflection, I still cannot accept that your 30% figure is correct. I have said previously that I would advise that you should do the calculation yourself for your own situation, I would now add to this that you should also research other suppliers for your area to find out the most competitive economy7 supplier.

I'm not sure that this sort of two-way posting is healthy, but it will probably make people consider the use of economy7 - and hopefully they will do the sums for themselves. Even if only a small saving can be made, it's a saving nevertheless - and don't forget there are environmental benefits of off-peak electricity usage.

Kubrick_2

So when are everyones off peak hours or does anyone have an exact figure for when they are?

Xbigman

Everyone in my area is 01.30 till 08.30. But from the end of this month summer time ends and its 12.30 till 07.30. There is some variation but those times are becoming very standardized.
Regards



X

geraint83

In my area (the ScottishPower Manweb region in Wales) I get off peak electricity between 2 and 5pm in the afternoon and between 10pm and 9am overnight. These times are for the summer months - they start and finish one hour earlier over the winter after the clocks go back.

paul_h

geraint83 wrote:

In my area (the ScottishPower Manweb region in Wales) I get off peak electricity between 2 and 5pm in the afternoon and between 10pm and 9am overnight. These times are for the summer months - they start and finish one hour earlier over the winter after the clocks go back.

That system sounds similar to economy10, which is very good if you can get it - though the cheap rate is usually about 0.7p/kWh more expensive than economy7. Off-peak on economy10 doesn't usually until 1-2am though, i.e. 7 hours at night.

The times stated by Xbigman above for economy7 are correct for most consumers. If you have an old timer which is not controlled by the REC it may be a bit out - like mine which is about an hour later than these figures.

geraint83

paul_h wrote:

That system sounds similar to economy10, which is very good if you can get it - though the cheap rate is usually about 0.7p/kWh more expensive than economy7. Off-peak on economy10 doesn't usually until 1-2am though, i.e. 7 hours at night.

The times stated by Xbigman above for economy7 are correct for most consumers. If you have an old timer which is not controlled by the REC it may be a bit out - like mine which is about an hour later than these figures.

We get 14 hours of off peak electricity each day but on the bill the company calls it Economy 7.

I think that everybody else in the area on an off-peak electricity tariff has the same hours.

paul_h

geraint83 wrote:

We get 14 hours of off peak electricity each day but on the bill the company calls it Economy 7.

I think that everybody else in the area on an off-peak electricity tariff has the same hours.

Never heard of that one, or anything similar, do you get billed at standard economy7 rates? If so, that's a very interesting tariff indeed - others in the same area should seriously take note!

Where abouts are you roughly, if you don't mind me asking?

...always fancied living in the home of my ancestors...

geraint83

paul_h wrote:

Never heard of that one, or anything similar, do you get billed at standard economy7 rates? If so, that's a very interesting tariff indeed - others in the same area should seriously take note!

Where abouts are you roughly, if you don't mind me asking?

...always fancied living in the home of my ancestors...

We pay the standard economy 7 rates for ScottishPower Manweb customer in the area, which I think is something like 9.3p (peak), 3.5p (off-peak) and 20p standing charge. It's a bit higher than the rest of the country but maybe this is also down to the timing.

I'm in the Aberystwyth area by the way.

paul_h

geraint83 wrote:

We pay the standard economy 7 rates for ScottishPower Manweb customer in the area, which I think is something like 9.3p (peak), 3.5p (off-peak) and 20p standing charge. It's a bit higher than the rest of the country but maybe this is also down to the timing.

Sounds about average for economy7 - we pay less but then east midlands region is about the cheapest in the UK, there will be plenty of people paying more than you on economy7.

Certainly worth anyone in the same area looking into this setup! :j