How Much Cheaper Is Eco 7?

irnbru_2

Really should be in a new thread ....

ltlmiles5 wrote:

I have got two storage heaters in my house. Haven't got a manual for them as they were installed by the previous owner. I did contact Creda online, but got a manual for a more recent model sent to me instead, and am not sure if they apply to mine. Mine are supposed to be automatic, but am not sure if they are working properly.

I switch them on using the switch on the wall, and it heats up, and I can feel the heat coming out of it after a few minutes, even though it's daytime. Shouldn't it come on only during off-peak hours? I am confused as I would have thought I can control it to charge up during the night, and turn it on using the dial, in the daytime. It has two dials. One says 'Room Temperature', the other 'Input'.

And when I switch it off using the switch on the wall, even turn both dials to 0, it still stays warm for hours and hours. And when I turn the dials up to when I acutally want the heat, there's none left!!!!.

Can someone please help? My husband and I haven't got a clue how this thing, which is supposed to save us money, actually works!

1. Are you on an Economy tariff?

If you can turn on the storage heaters during the day it doesn't sound like you have an Economy tariff unless it includes daytime usage. Check your last bill carefully or ask your supplier.

2. Check your meters

In the house I've been in there is a mechanical timer which selects between standard and economy rate. Do you have one of those?

3. Creda storage heaters

Is there a metal cover for the room temp and input controls? The model number is usually on the underside of it. As they are still hot several hours after they've been switched off it sounds like you've got storage heaters.

4. Controlling the storage heaters.

The Input sets what level you want them charged too.

The room control dictates how quickly you want the heat out. Its usually a mechanical vent so if you leave it high (i.e. 6) the heat will escape much faster. You want to ensure its 0 when charging and release the heat by increasing it as required. If you find your not using all the heat then reduce the input till you get the right balance.



If you don't have an Economy tariff I would say they're not worth using.

irnbru_2

New question ... new thread .......

whosforachat wrote:

My bills always show 182 units at a high cost (even when an actual reading is taken), and all the rest at a low cost. How can they tell from your meter reading what you used when? Are they just guessing at 182 units?

1. Are you getting an estimated bill?

2. Check your meter readings!

In answer to your question of how they can tell: you have two separate meters. Depending on their age you may have a single meter with two displays or possibly two separate ones?

If you have a single meter it should have, say, low and normal. Low being economy rate and normal being standard rate. Read the number excluding any in red digits.

3. 182 units?

How many bills have said 182 units? That does seem strange if it always reads that usage.


If you're in when they call, ask them to explain the readings and where they're taken from.

suzetim

Thanks to Paul_h for his advise and then all his working out....I agree with him to re Robert5988's reply , I thought is was harsh...lightened up Robert.

ltlmiles5

I would have imagined the 182 units to be the first 182 units charged at the higher rate, followed by the rest on a lower rate, as electricity is always charged at a higher rate first (set by the company), then a lower rate for the rest.

I guess this is how they make their money. It's like companies charging more if you just buy one, but give you a discount if you buy more, say buy 1 for £5, but get 3 for £10.

paul_h

The term 'No Standing Charge' they use is a bit misleading - the higher primary rate you pay for a fixed number of units in effect pays the supplier a fixed extra charge over your total usage at the secondary rate - to me this is still a standing charge.

Simply subtract the primary rate from the secondary rate and multiply the result by the number of units charged at the primary rate (typically around 200kWh per quarter) and you know what standing charge you are actually paying.

This system is only of benefit to someone who uses very little electricity in any particular quarter, i.e. less than the 200kWh for example.

charlieheard

paul_h wrote:

If I have made an error here, I hold my hands up and apologise - but it looks right to me.

The only problem is that you and the others following have taken the monthly or quarterly tariff and applied to your yearly consumption.

Certainly for my supplier it is the first N Kwh per quarter that is at the higher tariff, then the lower tariff for the rest of the quarter. The calculations above would significantly overestimate the benefits of Economy7, as you've got almost 11 months on the lower tariff, rather than the 7-8 months in reality.

Afraid I haven't time to recalculate them for you...

paul_h

charlieheard wrote:

The only problem is that you and the others following have taken the monthly or quarterly tariff and applied to your yearly consumption.

Certainly for my supplier it is the first N Kwh per quarter that is at the higher tariff, then the lower tariff for the rest of the quarter. The calculations above would significantly overestimate the benefits of Economy7, as you've got almost 11 months on the lower tariff, rather than the 7-8 months in reality.

Afraid I haven't time to recalculate them for you...

No I haven't.

As you say, doing the calculation this way would be would obviously be incorrect.


If you examine the calculations, you will see that the figure I used for the annual primary rate calculation was 800KWh, my quarterly figure would have been 200KWh.

All electricity tariffs are billed quarterly and my calculations take into account that you would pay the maximum possible annually on the highest rate, i.e 4 full quarters at the maximum billed at primary rate, e.g. 4 x 200KWh = 800KWh, then the rest of your day usage on the secondary day rate.

I think you may be confusing the secondary day rate with the night rate.

There are three rates on these economy7 tariffs if they are the 'no standing charge' type tariff, where you would have just two on a standard NSC tariff - primary and secondary. The night rate is completely independent from the two day rates and does not affect the amount which is billed at the highest primary rate. All night usage is always billed at the fixed lower rate, you do not pay a primary/secondary rate on night usage.

Doing the day usage primary calculation at 200 KWh per quarter or 800KWh per annum makes no difference - the sums workout the same, unless you use little or no electricity in any particular quarter - in that case you would actually pay less on economy7 as any night usage would reduce your payment at the primary (highest) rate.


I can't see how this significantly overestimates the benefit of economy7, as it takes into account the maximum usage at the highest rate?

Cardew

I think the main point to be made in this thread is that there is no "one size fits all solution" in calculating if E7 is advantageous for any particular customer.

Tariffs vary widely by utility company and the area of UK in which you live.

You need to estimate what is your overall consumption and then what % of that you can use in the E7 period. Armed with that information you need to do some arithmetic!

If you have gas CH, as a general rule, it will normally be cheaper to heat water with that rather than an immersion heater on E7.

paul_h

Cardew wrote:

I think the main point to be made in this thread is that there is no "one size fits all solution" in calculating if E7 is advantageous for any particular customer.

Tariffs vary widely by utility company and the area of UK in which you live.

You need to estimate what is your overall consumption and then what % of that you can use in the E7 period. Armed with that information you need to do some arithmetic!

If you have gas CH, as a general rule, it will normally be cheaper to heat water with that rather than an immersion heater on E7.

You're right, they only way to accurately work out if you would be better off either way is to do the calculation for yourself, use your own usage figures for the last 12 months and your own electricity suppliers tariffs - they do vary greatly and some companies discourage economy7 customers with their pricing.

The hard bit is estimating your overnight usage - one way would be to take meter readings before you go to bed and when you get up for a period of time, and work it out from there - should help you make an estimate. You can also take steps to make more use of the cheap rate electricity, such as using timers on washering machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, etc.. or turn nocturnal

I also agree that hot water heating will always be cheaper done with mains gas if it is available to you. Unfortunately, there's no mains gas where I live, and oil prices have gone through the roof.

Harpoon_2

hst43029 wrote:

Scottish Power (Manweb) offer 4 off peak tariffs. Economy 7. Twin Heat A, Twin Heat B and Option 14. E7 is 7 hours off peak 0030-0730 GMT. THA is 7 off peak hours 0330-0730 and 1330-1630 GMT, THB is 7 off peak hours 0030-0430 and 1330-1630 GMT and Option 14 is 14 off peak hours the times which I cannot remember. THA is a very popular but little advertised tariff because if you have storage heaters they get warm for the morning and get a boost in the afternoon, but more importantly you get 3 hours cheap electric in the afternoon to do the cooking/put the washing on etc, etc.

Is there an eay way to find out if you get "extended" E7, E10, E14 or E-Whatever?

I'm on E7 with nPower and asked them this week if they could do any of the other services so my storage heaters could get an afternoon / early evening top-up. They said:

"I can confirm we are unable to offer you an economy 10 meter as npower does not support that meter."

I've e-mailed PowerGen but I suspect I'll be e-mailing providers till the cows come home to find out...

Thanks,

Chris.