A Tenant's guide to renting

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

“Usual place of abode outside the UK” does not include stays abroad of 6 months or less, within the relevant period, which are classed as temporary.

I think a tenant should be totally wary of taking on the responsability of determining a landlord's residency, they really should not as they cannot really be sure of the landlord's movements. How can they know which side of six months any visit falls, they cannot.

For a borderline case, or with a non-cooperative landlord, or if in doubt then a tenant should, in time for any tax to be clawed back from future rent due, give the known facts to HMRC and ask HMRC residency/CNR to make the decision with written confirmation and the tenant should act on this advice. From the thread we can see that HMRC residancy/CNR will put notes on file if the tenant isn't happy with the landlord's story so that the tenant is protected from a tax liability.

As the thread I linked to shows, from the comments of landlords here, a tenant taking this into their own hands risks retaliatory eviction via a Section 21 notice. This is most likely to happen if the landlord is dodgy. The above board non-resident landlord can register to have rent paid gross saving everyone hassle. The HMRC guidance says any landlord will be allowed to receive rent gross if HMRC are satisfied the non-resident landlord will be filling in a self assessment tax return.

tbs624

franklee wrote: »

I think a tenant should be totally wary of taking on the responsibility of determining a landlord's residency, they really should not as they cannot really be sure of the landlord's movements. How can they know which side of six months any visit falls, they cannot..

For a borderline case, or with a non-cooperative landlord, or if in doubt then a tenant should give the known facts to HMRC and ask HMRC residency/CNR to make the decision with written confirmation and the tenant should act on this advice. From the thread we can see that HMRC residency/CNR will put notes on file if the tenant isn't happy with the landlord's story so that the tenant is protected from a tax liability..

You have got the bit between your teeth, haven't you, Franklee . Look again and you'll see what followed after the part of my post quoted by you:

tbs624 wrote: »

“Usual place of abode outside the UK” does not include stays abroad of 6 months or less, within the relevant period, which are classed as temporary.

All the OP needed to do was calmly write to HMRC :” my LL is currently abroad, here are the details I have about my tenancy, here is what the LL/LLs brother says. Please advise” and then wait for the answer and get on with her life. HMRC then have to look into it, check with the LL, and confirm to T, as indeed they did in this case.

For any T who does want/need to read up on this issue the info can be accessed here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/nrl_guide_notes.pdf

franklee wrote: »

As the thread I linked to shows, from the comments of landlords here, a tenant taking this into their own hands risks retaliatory eviction via a Section 21 notice. This is most likely to happen if the landlord is dodgy. The above board non-resident landlord can register to have rent paid gross saving everyone hassle. The HMRC guidance says any lanlord will be allowed to receice rent gross if HMRC are statsfied the non-resident landlord will be filling in a self assesment tax return.

My highlighting. I think you are so excited at discovering something tenancy-related that is new to you that you are getting carried away. If the LL is dodgy the T is best off moving elsewhere anyway but I suspect that any T who goes about things the way a specific poster did would try the patience of even the most upright of LLs. There are *ways* of doing things.

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

You have got the bit between your teeth, haven't you, Franklee . Look again and you'll see what followed after the part of my post quoted by you:



My highlighting. I think you are so excited at discovering something tenancy-related that is new to you that you are getting carried away. If the LL is dodgy the T is best off moving elsewhere anyway but I suspect that any T who goes about things the way a specific poster did would try the patience of even the most upright of LLs. There are *ways* of doing things.

It's you just raised this issue again not me, you have the bit between your teeth for bashing the OP from that thread again several days after all was quiet. That OP's landlady told her she was emigrating which is why she was renting the property out on a years initial fixed term. IMO the OP was correct in her actions, which at the end of the day were to raise the issue with CNR (no tax was deducted). The OP was right to be wary of her landlady's reply as the story kept changing, I would not have risked a tax liability to 20% of the rent (one thousand nine hundred pounds or so per year) on a letter like the one from that landlady, as who knows if she really means to return from abroad in time or not.

The scheme isn't new to me, if you read the thread you will see I've come across it on landlord zone before. What was new to me are the problems it causes a tenant, risk liability for the tax or risk retaliatory eviction. It had not occurred to me that landlords would react against a tenant looking into this as strongly as was made clear on the thread, not just against the OP but against any tenant asking such questions about a landlord's affairs. Also new to me was just how difficult it can be to pin the landlord down and that in such a case CNR will allow the rent be paid gross and also put the notes on file to stop the tenant being liable when the landlord is un-cooperative.

The liability for the tax is real enough, from the HMRC document you linked to:

"What if the non-resident landlord has paid the tax?

12.35 The obligations of letting agents and tenants under the NRL Scheme are distinct from the obligation of landlords to show their rental income on their tax returns and pay their tax. Where the auditors discover that a letting agent or tenant has failed to account for tax under the Scheme when required to do so, they will normally seek to recover the tax from the letting agent or tenant.

But where the letting agent or tenant is able to show that the non-resident landlord has either already paid any tax due on the rental income or has no liability to tax on it, the auditors will normally be prepared to agree to recover only interest and penalties from the letting agent or tenant. The letting agent or tenant has 90 days from the issue of the auditor’s report to show this to the auditor’s satisfaction. After that date the auditor will press for recovery of tax from the letting agent or tenant.

For reasons of taxpayer confidentiality, the auditors cannot disclose to letting agents or tenants whether a landlord has paid his tax."

How a tenant is supposed to show an un-cooperative landlord has paid tax is beyond me - again they can't possibly know and HMRC can't help with that one.

As explained several times before moving isn't always easy for a tenant as it costs time and money. Moving with children more so. How much hassle would it be for you to pack up your house and complete a move?

tbs624

:rolleyes:
I fully agree that a T should contact CNR if s/he has concerns over this issue, and have already said so, both in the original thread and on here : however, a T posting up the content of her LL's personal emails on an internet forum before the matter had been properly checked out by HMRC is not the best way to go about it.

Remember - *just 3 days and HMRC/CNR had put her mind at rest*. I reckon that's a pretty good turn around time, don't you? The thread was an absolute art form in mountains/molehills.

franklee wrote: »

Also new to me was just how difficult it can be to pin the landlord down and that in such a case CNR will allow the rent be paid gross and also put the notes on file to stop the tenant being liable when the landlord is un-cooperative.

Of course they will, hence why I said:

"All the OP needed to do was calmly write to HMRC :” my LL is currently abroad, here are the details I have about my tenancy, here is what the LL/LLs brother says. Please advise” and then wait for the answer and get on with her life. HMRC then have to look into it, check with the LL, and confirm to T, as indeed they did in this case."

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

:rolleyes:
I fully agree that a T should contact CNR if s/he has concerns over this issue, and have already said so, both in the original thread and on here : however, a T posting up the content of her LL's personal emails on an internet forum before the matter had been properly checked out by HMRC is not the best way to go about it.

Remember - *just 3 days and HMRC/CNR had put her mind at rest*. I reckon that's a pretty good turn around time, don't you? The thread was an absolute art form in mountains/molehills.

Of course they will, hence why I said:

"All the OP needed to do was calmly write to HMRC :” my LL is currently abroad, here are the details I have about my tenancy, here is what the LL/LLs brother says. Please advise” and then wait for the answer and get on with her life. HMRC then have to look into it, check with the LL, and confirm to T, as indeed they did in this case."

I was listing what was new to me as of last week when the thread was running in response to your wrong observation I quoted in post #223 regarding what was new to me :rolleyes:

RedBalloon

Morning!

I wonder if someone can help me. I've just signed a new tenancy agreement and my Landlord would like a couple of references - one being from my bank.

On the form he has asked me to sign and return to him to send to my bank, it says:

"I hereby request and authorise you to provide a reference to my new Landlords......IF there is a charge for this service I agree that my bank can debit my account up to £12.00. If it is more please call me for authority."

Now if I sign this are my bank going to charge me £12 regardless? Do they usually charge this much for this sort of reference? Should I amend it to say less?

Thoughts please........many thanks!

inmypocketnottheirs

Which bank?

Yes banks do charge for refs and £12 is about average.

RedBalloon

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

Which bank?

Yes banks do charge for refs and £12 is about average.

Halifax. That's a bummer - not an expense I'd considered, but I suppose if the landlord requires it I can't do much about it.

Tassotti

Redbaloon...thats's nothing compared to what a letting would charge you. If you have nothing to hide there are no worries

Ade

clutton_2

if i want a reference from a local authority for one of their tenants who wants to become one of my tenants - they want to charge me £69 plus VAT