Solar Power-is it worth it?

amtrakuk

yeah and dont forget the cleaning out of the ash... I knew someone who had one and ruined a Henry vac by sucking out the ash but then realised there were one of two hot embers, thats with leaving it overnight.

From what I understand they are abit new so there is liable to be teething faults also I believe you can use them in a smoke control area which might be worth checking out before you put you're solid fuel range in. Seasoned wood is abit more pricey.

I didnt think of the price of pellets being potentially linked to oil and gas. Im not sure if you can get a multi fuel one? Wood or pellets - dont know if there is such a thing but it might be worth the little extra to give you diversity.

Then I read your next line! Multi fuel range that heats hot water also.. Sounds good in principle but would you really want to use a furnace for your cooking in the summer even though it heats hot water. I have a feeling you will be eating salads and without hot water. Thats why I believe they went out of fashion, heating the house like anything with radiant heat in mid summer just to get a tank of hot water. My mate ripped his out and went for gas and used the immersion heater in the cylinder as he had to keep it lit near enough 24/7 and made the kitchen not a very nice place to be in, he's thinking of ripping that out and going for an induction hob and electric oven - Induction hobs are wonderful and very very fast, unlike gas at 35% and electric at 45% efficiency, as induction uses the pan itself to heat not a ring or burner they are something like 98% efficient. I have learnt the hard way by burning a few dinners but know how to drive it now.

ggugvrunt

driller_killer wrote: »

Cardew, you would do well to read my posts more carefully before you fire off a reply. I referred to you once in the whole of my post (and that was inviting you to do some sums on my figures), yet you think that that whole post was a diatribe against you. However, if you want me to pick you up on some of your figures, i will gladly do so. Firstly, in your reply yesterday to wpp34, you said "i don't understand what you mean by power" I think that rather rude, as you clearly do understand what the poster meant. However, you then went on to say that "Energy can be measured in kWh" The SI unit of energy is the Joule, not Watt. Watt is the SI unit of Power. So, if you're going to pick posters up on their terminology, make sure you get yours right first. Ok, pedantic, but i thought you rather blunt to the poster.

I've just spotted this from driller_killer - "However, you then went on to say that 'Energy can be measured in kWh' The SI unit of energy is the Joule, not Watt. Watt is the SI unit of Power. So, if you're going to pick posters up on their terminology, make sure you get yours right first.".

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Anyone with a basic education in physics will know that energy equals power multiplied by time so both Joules and Kilowatt Hours are units of energy.

amtrakuk

Did anyone see the "Tonight" program this week, about soaring energy prices. They had a woman who had spent £20k on solar panels covering the whole roof of her house, as she says Im selling alot of energy back to the electricity company. Her electricity bill averages out at about £5 a month!

Shes installed a fancy wood burner (I think it does abit more than heat just that room) and what looked like a 6 x 6 ft hot water solar panel, which didnt look too classy, It is on a 45 degree bracket on the back of her house.

the_reductionist

a couple of points:

There is no maintenance associated with roof mounted panels - any debris is washed off if mounted at the correct angle. Mine are as clean as they were on the day they were installed.

The only moving part is the conventional central heating pump (on my system) so hardly expensive to replace if it fails.

Mine was a DIY sytem costing around £1500. The whole package was set up by my local district council in conjunction with the local university and a local solar panel supplier and included workshops and advice if needed.

I'm pretty sure you could do it cheaper than this if you sourced the components yourself.

I'm not on the gas main and my oil has risen by well over 300% in the last 4 years. This is just the start and the only certainty is that the days of cheap fossil fuels are gone.

pphilpot

OK, so while this thread isn't exactly the most polite place to discuss this, I'll chuck in my plans. I'm in a bungalow with an old oil fired boiler (15 years old), with two adults and one four year old using about 270 litres of oil (this figure has taken into account the minor use of CH during this period) during a 6 month period (April-end of September - based on records from 2006 and 2007). So at current prices that oil would be £173.

Now, I DO understand that our summers are RUBBISH, and we haven't seen much sun this year but I have decided to jump in to the controversial solar water heating game. I managed to source a Navitron 20 tube collector plus Resol BS3 controller for £365 from a liquidation company. I'm currently purchasing the installation parts, and I estimate that my DIY installation cost for the (discounted) collector and controller plus installation components will be about £650.

So, what is my payback time? Well, let's guesstimate that we'll use our boiler to top up the hot water tank for heavy use/heavily overcast summer days for 25% of the above oil use. So that's about £130 (£173-25%) in equivalent oil use. Add a hypothetical amount of late autumn/winter/early spring water pre-heating and we *may* get half of that 25% back, so let's call it £150 in equivalent oil use. So, (go on, yell at me) my estimated payback is 4+ years, and where oil prices rise (and where I have to fill the tank) this *may* (probably) will reduce.

I also plan to use the controller to switch over the dishwasher to a hot water inlet when the collector has produced 'free' hot water. True, a minimal energy gain, if any, but I'll give it a try all the same...

There is little chance that I would have chosen to install a system based on the £3500 installation costs, but I began this project after being inspired by a thread on another forum about DIY building a SolarTwin collector for £300-£400. I eventually decided to opt for the Navitron evacuated tubes as they were discounted, and there's a little more chance that they *may* add a small value (I've read a hypothetical £1000) to the property if I need to sell within the next 5 years. The way I see it (even if I am looking through rose tinted spectacles) with oil prices heading skywards, and my minimal investment, I can't lose.

Actually, I'd save more by not drinking beer. But hey, I've gotta draw a line there...

Cardew

pphilpot wrote: »

OK, so while this thread isn't exactly the most polite place to discuss this, I'll chuck in my plans. I'm in a bungalow with an old oil fired boiler (15 years old), with two adults and one four year old using about 270 litres of oil (this figure has taken into account the minor use of CH during this period) during a 6 month period (April-end of September - based on records from 2006 and 2007). So at current prices that oil would be £173.

Now, I DO understand that our summers are RUBBISH, and we haven't seen much sun this year but I have decided to jump in to the controversial solar water heating game. I managed to source a Navitron 20 tube collector plus Resol BS3 controller for £365 from a liquidation company. I'm currently purchasing the installation parts, and I estimate that my DIY installation cost for the (discounted) collector and controller plus installation components will be about £650.

So, what is my payback time? Well, let's guesstimate that we'll use our boiler to top up the hot water tank for heavy use/heavily overcast summer days for 25% of the above oil use. So that's about £130 (£173-25%) in equivalent oil use. Add a hypothetical amount of late autumn/winter/early spring water pre-heating and we *may* get half of that 25% back, so let's call it £150 in equivalent oil use. So, (go on, yell at me) my estimated payback is 4+ years, and where oil prices rise (and where I have to fill the tank) this *may* (probably) will reduce.

I also plan to use the controller to switch over the dishwasher to a hot water inlet when the collector has produced 'free' hot water. True, a minimal energy gain, if any, but I'll give it a try all the same...

There is little chance that I would have chosen to install a system based on the £3500 installation costs, but I began this project after being inspired by a thread on another forum about DIY building a SolarTwin collector for £300-£400. I eventually decided to opt for the Navitron evacuated tubes as they were discounted, and there's a little more chance that they *may* add a small value (I've read a hypothetical £1000) to the property if I need to sell within the next 5 years. The way I see it (even if I am looking through rose tinted spectacles) with oil prices heading skywards, and my minimal investment, I can't lose.

Actually, I'd save more by not drinking beer. But hey, I've gotta draw a line there...

Interesting post.

With an oil fired boiler with a low efficiency you may well be paying( in effect)
arount 10p for a kWh.

In which case you would do well to consider having an Economy 7 tariff and pay around 4p for a kWh(plus a premium on your other electricity of course.)I would never consider using oil to heat my water, summer or winter

I suspect a saving of £150(for oil at 10p/kWh) with a 20 tube system will be on the high side, but not outrageously so!! If you used Economy 7 your savings would be much much less.

You will have done extremely well to get a system fitted for £650.

pphilpot

I'm really not up to speed with the unit cost conversion of different energy consumption processes, but I guess you're about right, as the general (users) consensus on the Navitron forum believe a 20 tube collector will realistically give 6KWh per average summers day and about a 10th of that in winter (non-summer). Tops is about 9-10 KWh on a hot June day (Navitron have recognised that the stated 14KWh per day stated on their FAQ is a typo, and will address it).

So, that *may* work out at about £120 equivalent annual oil use for my domestic hot water...

Still OK for my limited investment, but only just...

p.s. I work from home, so I use a fair bit of daytime electricity, so therefore haven't considered Economy 7...

p.p.s. expensive installation parts purchased from eBay (TMV, motorised valve, pump, all new), and standard plumbing parts from Toolstation (way cheaper than B&Q and the likes)

pphilpot

Actually, I should add for anybody reading my initial post and thinking '£650 - bargain, tell me how', that there's a fairly sharp learning curve, and a good few hours spent designing the 'simple' system. Plus I estimate that I'll spend quite a few hours plumbing it in - all in all, far longer than a 2 day install quoted by general installers.

Alison_Bisley

I'm looking into green investments as a safer way to invest my money following the credit crunch for uk buy-to-lets. I'm interested in low entry deals and entry deals around 30-50 euros. I've looked into the countries that have the feed-in tariff in place with competitive financing options - germany has, however, currently sold out. Not interested in investing in stocks or funds.
Anyone got any ideas?

amtrakuk

Green investments are all very well as long as they give the benefits of what they are replacing all year round. There has always been a doubt with solar as the efficiency drops in the autumn and winter so then rely on a backup system