Solar Power-is it worth it?

Cardew

Hi,
Your set up is an altogether different proposition to anything being discussed here.

Firstly 21 square meters of solar panels is an industrial set-up! A single panel set-up in UK costing several thousand pounds is 2 square meters. Some people might have 2 panels - so 4 ssq mtrs.

Secondly solar for a swimming pool is an different proposition altogether. You get lots of hot water in the summer, when you can use it.

In fact that is how I first got interested in solar heating, I had a large oil heated swimming pool(it came with a house I bought). Solar is also good at heating lots of water a few degrees, which is ideal.

I also have been involved with investigating solar heating of a pool in Florida; and was asked to write a report on the various heating methods.

It depends where you live in Germany as well, Southern Germany is a lot warmer than UK in summer. I lived in Germany for some years(in the North) and whilst 'speicher' means memory, in this context I guess it means 'thermal store'

However even with such a huge setup as yours, I suspect you will get relatively little output in the depths of winter.

The_MoneySavingKid

I am sure that in Germany the government pays serious amounts of money for selling your electricity generated from solar power.
I am German myself,but live in the UK so I am not entirely sure if that is the state there,but that's what I remember hearing anyways.

Sarjsmith

Yep the German government provide a 25% grant if your installation includes central heating support. You are right Cardew, for two months of the year the panels are as good as useless(apart from the odd sunny winters day) but during the rest of the winter they provide support to the heating and hot water (when the pool is off). A hot water and heating support installation consisting of 17.6 sq m of panels 300 litre hot water tank and 600 litre heating water tank(the 'speicher') plus all pipes, pumps and fluid required for installation will cost 6,800 euros(VAT already included) The euro today is at 1.26 to the pound. Fitting is extra.You need space to install the tanks, but luckily the Germans have cellars!!!.
I suppose my point is that they actively encourage the use of solar power here and it appears that larger installations work (at these prices!) Whether or not these bigger installations are an option for a lot of UK homes is another question!

Cardew

Sarjsmith,

Thanks for that information.

As a matter of interest where do you mount 21 square meters of panels? and do you live in Southern Germany?

Few houses in UK have a whole roof of that size - let alone South facing!

Leaving out the masses of cowboys who operate in the Solar industry in UK, the accepted price from the more reputable firms for the instalation of a 2 square meter panel system(with a single tank much smaller than 300 litres) is £3,500 to £4,000.

So to get a system with that amount of panels, 2 huge water tanks etc etc for £5,400 is an absolute bargain.

Having said that I would have thought that the ability to heat a swimming pool in summer is the major money saving aspect.

Even at those prices I doubt if the economics* would add up if the system were installed solely for HW and heating alone.

* Borrowing the capital/loss of interest, electricity to run pump(s), maintenance/repairs etc.

eilidh_s

So having read through all of this very long and interesting thread, I thought I would add my own opinion. I am currently spending my free time gathering reams of quotes for all the bits and bobs involved in building a house and last week I went to our local environmentally friendly plumber to get some ideas for a heating system.

I asked all about heat sources and panels and I came away with a very reasonable quote for a cheap to run heating system. I am going for air source pump with wet underfloor heating and with a heat recovery system attached. I am using air source as I don't have enough ground space for ground source. The plumber said i then had a lot of optional extras including solar panels but he hasn't recommended them for anyone who is working on a new build.

They work slightly more efficiently in colder temperatures so I could expect to save up to £60 a year but even still, before I have made them pay for themselves, they would be due for replacement. He said that they were much better for supplementing an existing, not so efficient, older system and even then, they are a very expensive way of doing it.

The other optional extra was the heat recovery system which is used instead of extractor fans and trickle vents in the windows. It is a pump in the loft that takes the warm, wet air from the bathrooms, kitchen, etc and uses it to warm up the incoming air from the heat pump. It can increase by up to 2 degrees and save you 5% on the running costs of the pump. It also draws air from the outside, filters it and recirculates it so you have a constant stream of warm fresh air going through your home. I am going for this as my mother has allergies and asthma and the filtered air will be good for her. It will take years to pay off and is expensive but as it is good for my mothers health and the lungs of everyone who visits my house, it will be worth it.

The whole heating system itself is expensive. It will be about £15000 including pumps, underfloor heating pipes and shower connections etc, but will cost me roughly £650 a year to run. At the moment my parent have a very old, inefficient oil fired boiler. It costs about £1500 to run and another £2000 for the heating fuel over and above that, not including the costs for repairs and replacements. Roughly every three years since they put the system in, something major has broken down. Right now there is no heating in the house except for the open fire. The water is heating up but the pump to circulate it around the heaters is broken. Luckily it doesn't really matter since the house is so warm anyway with all the sunshine we have been having!

Cardew

eilidh_s wrote: »

I am going for air source pump with wet underfloor heating and with a heat recovery system attached. I am using air source as I don't have enough ground space for ground source. The plumber said i then had a lot of optional extras including solar panels but he hasn't recommended them for anyone who is working on a new build.

They work slightly more efficiently in colder temperatures so I could expect to save up to £60 a year but even still, before I have made them pay for themselves, they would be due for replacement. He said that they were much better for supplementing an existing, not so efficient, older system and even then, they are a very expensive way of doing it.


The whole heating system itself is expensive. It will be about £15000 including pumps, underfloor heating pipes and shower connections etc, but will cost me roughly £650 a year to run.

Interesting post and nice to see some realistic firgures.

I take it you have read this thread on ASHP's?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=702257

If you haven't got room for a GSHP, will noise not be a problem?

bobmedley

What model heat pump are you are going for? I have heat pumps (aka air conditioners) & the co-efficient is 4 but this does tail off with decreasing temperatures. Just wondering how it would cope when it's really cold - I only use mine as 'top ups' to the existing oil CH.

Also

"It costs about £1500 to run and another £2000 for the heating fuel over and above that, not including the costs for repairs and replacements"

The £1,500 is a typo, right?:eek:

I also have a Villavent heat recovery system in my house, but don't understand the bit

"It is a pump in the loft that takes the warm, wet air from the bathrooms, kitchen, etc and uses it to warm up the incoming air from the heat pump. It can increase by up to 2 degrees and save you 5% on the running costs of the pump."

How is it linked to the heat pump? Does the exhaust blow over the heat pump or something? Mine has a heat exchanger, so that the exhaust temp is low as it has warmed the incoming air (in winter anyway). In Summer, there is no heat recovery.

eilidh_s

Unfortunatly £1500 ain't a typo. My jaw almost hit the floor when my Mum told me. I am going for either a Neibe pump or a Dimplex. I think these are the two that my local friendly plumber goes with. I went to a building across the road that has a Neibe one and there was hardly a noise at all. I sleep like the dead anyway and the Sipit panels are practically noiseproof so it doesn't really matter.

tedsui

Trying to research "Solar Heating" I have been reading some of the earlier threads on this posting. I had a quote from a company today called SolarCan from Canterbury in Kent. They started the quote at £10,150.00 for my 3 bed detached bungalow, this gradually dropped to £6995.00 as they wanted to "monitor" my savings. This then dropped again to £4995.00, if I hold out will I get it for free? From what I have already read I don't think I will be pursuing this any further. Thanks to all of you for timely advice and saving me wasting £5K.

shandypants5

Now, if we could only harness the "hot Air " from the salesmen.......