Solar Power-is it worth it?

wpp34

In view of the warnings given in the Time article Cardew has posted a link for you may be interested in the following account. I had a visit from a representative of solarhomeenergy last Friday evening. The visit started off with a talk about what the company did. His presentation consisted of going through a file containing lots of laminated pages of information on the company, its products, trading guarantees, warranties etc. The worst part was the absurd claims with regards to the possible savings in relation to energy prices, especially when he used an illustration assuming rises in excess of 10% per year and using the total spent on fuel, this came to over £70,000 after 20 years. Probably correct arithmetically but in my opinion only used to produce an amount so large as to scare people into buying!

The talk lasted over an hour and the 'survey' followed This took about 15 minutes, after which he sat down and told us we needed a panel on the front roof as well as the rear as the rear was SW facing and we would not get any sun on it in the morning. This would require double equipment as only one panel could connect to the heating coil in the tank at one time. After lots of filling in forms we had a price.....£11,200.

Then we got into the interesting part, we were the first in our postcode area, we could get referrals which further reduced the cost if we had a display board outside the house for only six weeks. We then went through a farcical questionnaire about the local area, who we knew, if we were on a bus route etc. All designed to give us a high rating so that we could get an even higher discount! We were then offered a price if we signed a contract that evening of only £7,700.

I was finding it hard to take all this seriously, especially as we had been assured that he was not paid on commission and was allowed to use his marketing budget to give such a large discount. (He had arrived in a newish Jaguar sports car, cost around £50,000+? so of course I believed him.) What I found puzzling was he seemed genuinely surprised when we were not interested, took no notice of me when I said that it was unlikely to save us more that £40 per year, glossed over the kwh per m2 that the panels were likely to produce etc. He took ages to pack up and we had to sign a form to say we had declined the discount but eventually left after over 2 hours.

I would not normally have wasted this amount of time but I really wanted to see what information I would get and what savings would be mentioned. It is frightening to realise that he will undoubtedly have sold many systems at extortionate prices to quite a few people!

Cardew

mech wrote: »

Thoughts?

Mech,
The Navitron 30 tube panel, which is about the best solar collector available, in an ideal location, produces approx 35kWh for the whole month of December. So saving about £1 if you have gas.

So when you need heat, you will get virtually nothing.

dekh

wpp34 wrote: »

He took ages to pack up and we had to sign a form to say we had declined the discount but eventually left after over 2 hours.

You signed something? Hope this doesn't mutate into some kind of contract when the salesman holds it over a candle! :rolleyes:

Cardew

wpp34 wrote: »

In view of the warnings given in the Time article Cardew has posted a link for you may be interested in the following account. I had a visit from a representative of solarhomeenergy last Friday evening. The visit started off with a talk about what the company did. His presentation consisted of going through a file containing lots of laminated pages of information on the company, its products, trading guarantees, warranties etc. The worst part was the absurd claims with regards to the possible savings in relation to energy prices, especially when he used an illustration assuming rises in excess of 10% per year and using the total spent on fuel, this came to over £70,000 after 20 years. Probably correct arithmetically but in my opinion only used to produce an amount so large as to scare people into buying!

The talk lasted over an hour and the 'survey' followed This took about 15 minutes, after which he sat down and told us we needed a panel on the front roof as well as the rear as the rear was SW facing and we would not get any sun on it in the morning. This would require double equipment as only one panel could connect to the heating coil in the tank at one time. After lots of filling in forms we had a price.....£11,200.

Then we got into the interesting part, we were the first in our postcode area, we could get referrals which further reduced the cost if we had a display board outside the house for only six weeks. We then went through a farcical questionnaire about the local area, who we knew, if we were on a bus route etc. All designed to give us a high rating so that we could get an even higher discount! We were then offered a price if we signed a contract that evening of only £7,700.

I was finding it hard to take all this seriously, especially as we had been assured that he was not paid on commission and was allowed to use his marketing budget to give such a large discount. (He had arrived in a newish Jaguar sports car, cost around £50,000+? so of course I believed him.) What I found puzzling was he seemed genuinely surprised when we were not interested, took no notice of me when I said that it was unlikely to save us more that £40 per year, glossed over the kwh per m2 that the panels were likely to produce etc. He took ages to pack up and we had to sign a form to say we had declined the discount but eventually left after over 2 hours.

I would not normally have wasted this amount of time but I really wanted to see what information I would get and what savings would be mentioned. It is frightening to realise that he will undoubtedly have sold many systems at extortionate prices to quite a few people!

That is absolutely standard procedure.

Watchdog(or a similar programme) secretly filmed exactly the same scenario.

The home base for these merchants is all around the Dorset area and some of the firms have the same people involved.

I don't wish to worry you, but are you sure that you know exactly what you signed?

I get flyers like this and I have been tempted to get them here for a visit and ask if I can record their presentation. You never know I might buy a couple of systems!

annscullamus

Cardew wrote: »

Powered by solar or not, it is still an electric pump which can, and will, fail.

Yawn
I simply cannot be bothered to argue, especially since my gas boiler needs regular maintenance every 6 months or so ( Corgi advice ) at a cost of around £60 a go. A gas boiler 'can, and will fail............................................'

May the force be with you - any force - gas , electric, wood power, llama turned water wheel....Zzzzzzzzzz

Cardew

annscullamus wrote: »

Yawn
I simply cannot be bothered to argue,

But you would if you were correct;)

annscullamus

One never panders to a 'last word' person.

mech_2

Cardew wrote: »

Mech,
The Navitron 30 tube panel, which is about the best solar collector available

It's possibly the best in terms of efficiency per m^2 for solar water heating, but with a simple/cheap enough design you can increase the collection area hugely and still have a low build cost, so efficiency matters less. I'm thinking of 6 m^2 or more now.

As I'm heating air directly, at say 30 degrees C compared to a water heater aiming for 60+ degrees, there's a much lower heat difference between the outside air temperature and the inside of the collector, so the benefit of evacuated glass tubes would likely to be diminished anyway. Plus solar hot water systems are mounted on the roof as they're designed for collection all year round. If the slope of the roof is in the 30-40 degree range (seems reasonable), it's pointing in totally the wrong direction in the UK in December. A vertical collector is actually at a better orientation for winter sun.

, in an ideal location, produces approx 35kWh for the whole month of December. So saving about £1 if you have gas.

So when you need heat, you will get virtually nothing.

The heating season isn't just December though. If the panel is inactive all of December, but gives heat for September, October, February, March and April it could still be worthwhile.

I'm aiming for a solar collector on a shoestring here, with a payback time of 1 or 2 years. If I can spend less than £70 and get at least 1400kWh of useful heat per year, this seems within reach.

What has been holding me back (apart from apathy) is the glazing. I don't feel like hefting large sheets of glass onto the back of the house. Large pieces of solid polycarbonate sheet seems to cost a bit much for my purposes. I'm now looking at off-the-shelf roofing panels instead. The "twin wall" stuff actually seems cheaper than the solid pieces (presumably due to the structure making them more rigid for less material) and it would insulate the panel better as well.

Cardew

Mech,
Without trying to 'knock' your idea, it seems implausible to me; but patent it if it works!!

Not much sun at night!

6 square metres is big! the size of 2 big fence panels.

Planning permission required??

Mounting/fittings to withstand winter winds???

Good luck

Welshwoofs

Being with neither numbers nor technology I'm afraid this thread has lost me. I was considering solar for DHW but it looks to be a dud judging by the postings here.

I've had my cottage for a year, during which time we've had to do a lot of renovations but have now basically run out of money to do any further major work. However our heating/hot water is neither cheap nor efficient.

Any ideas on what to do here much appreciated!

Current setup: ALL heating (7 radiators) and hot water supplied by a multi-fuel stove. Backup hot water supplied by standard immersion heater.

Costs: £125 a month for coal to feed multi-fuel stove + £60 a month electricity for lights/electrical gear/cooking.

Energy efficiency measures: All radiators replaced. All bulbs are energy bulbs. New loft insulation. Solid brick walls so no wall insulation.

Usual usage: 1, sometimes 2 large baths of water a day. Washing up water. Washing machine used once a week.

The £125 a month for coal remains the same, summer or winter since we have to have it burning constantly for hot water. We did try 2 months during the summer of hot burning and using the immersion for hot water but that actually turned out to be more expensive than burning the coal when we got the electricity bill in! Obviously in the summer we turn the thermostats on all the radiators off, but it makes no difference as far as amount of coal burned. In the winter, the stove does a decent job of heating the downstairs, but the upstairs is generally pretty bloody cold and the radiator in each room warm rather than hot.

So, we're basically paying £185 a month, summer or winter, to get hot water and heating. It's a 2-bed end of terrace and the high electricity costs are probably down to the fact that I work at home all day.

What's the best way to get that monthly cost down without outlaying the sorts of figures I'm reading for solar installations? (I simply don't have £5k-£10k and don't intend staying in this cottage more than 5 years so wouldn't gain it back even if I had it in the first place).

Please nobody say 'wear a thick jumper' - did that the first winter and sitting on a computer for 10hrs a day with fingers so cold you can barely move them is NO FUN!