Irate Buyer - Help!

chouchoutan

I've pasted in an email string I've been having with a buyer on ebay and just wanted to get some impartial observations. Every email I now receive from him sends my blood pressure higher through the roof. I'm not any sort of power seller - been registered since 2004 and bought\sold 39 things so am just a casual user - never had a problem before. Have taken names\email addresses out (start at the bottom). Any advice please:

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12- May- 08 14:36
Hi Irate Buyer.

Once the dispute is opened with either paypal or ebay I will be happy to provide any information required. As stated previously, I will scan a copy of the proof of posting this evening and send it to you.

Postage was Royal Mail Standard parcels as advertised - not recorded delivery.

I believe I have tried to be as helpful as possible to resolve this issue but am happy to proceed down a more formal channel if you prefer.

Thanks, Chouchoutan.

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Original Message

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From: Irate Buyer
Sent: 12 May 2008 14:33
To: Chouchoutan
Subject: RE: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

If thats your attitude I will be starting procedings now as i did check the the postage and it stated 3 to 5 days if postage was the full £20 pounds charged I will accept this but if postage was cheaper then stated price which i presume to be the case as you have failed to provide a tracking number you have cut corners on the delivery so are still responsible if i had an idear it would take this long i would not have purchased the item from you or would have arranged to pick it up last tuesday when i was in bristol, and as for no evidence that I have not received the item I have been given no evidence that you have actually sent the item or have sent the item at the time that you have stated. I suggest you refund my cash to resolve this issue or i am quite happy to use the disputed claimes service as I have been over there advice at the weekend as i have been concernd that this was a bogus auction as you stated I have only your word that the item was sent and no evidence to back this up.

Irate Buyer

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From: Chouchoutan
Date: 2008/05/12 Mon PM 01:57:37 BST
To: Irate Buyer
Subject: RE: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

Hi Irate Buyer.

As previously stated if you want to 'start proceedings' you will have to go through the standard ebay dispute procedure which I linked to in my last email. You could also visit the 'Paypal Resolution Centre' (there is a link from the ebay dispute pages) and file a complaint with them.

If you do go down the formal complaint route please let me know asap as I will want to upload copies of all correspondence to prove that I have been trying to assist you in the process.

I cannot do anything until the Post Office confirm the parcel is misplaced. It was sent as advertised using the Royal Mail standard parcel service and I have proof of posting to confirm that. I have no control over the postal service once the parcel was handed over the counter. If you can confirm on the 22nd that the parcel has still not arrived I will start the process of reporting it as lost with the Post Office but I have no idea how long this process takes.

You can't honestly expect me to simply take your word that the item has not arrived and refund your money without any investigation. Put yourself in my shoes - you could do this kind of thing all the time and just be trying to take me for a ride here.

It is unfortunate that the item has been reduced by Comet but we had no way of knowing that was going to happen and the item was listed in good faith.

I will email you a copy of proof of posting this evening.

Thanks, Chouchoutan.

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Original Message

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From: Irate Buyer
Sent: 12 May 2008 13:43
To: Chouchoutan
Subject: RE: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

No it should of taken 3 to 5 days, I have paid you have failed to deliver you need to chase this up not myself or I will be forced to start procedings to recoup my expenses if I do decide to start procedings I will only except a return of payment and if you go to the comet site as listed in the advert you will find it has been reduced and for just 29 pounds more I could have bought it hassle free with no wait, I do not mind the item being slightly late but this amount of time is unacceptable and needs resolving fast.

Irate Buyer

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From: Chouchoutan
Date: 2008/05/12 Mon AM 11:19:11 BST
To: Irate Buyer
Subject: RE: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

Hi Irate Buyer.

The Post Office have said they won't consider any item of mail as lost until 15 days after sending. The parcel was sent on 30th April so we can't register it as lost until 22nd May. They have provided the contact info for your local postal depot who will hold the parcel for 3 weeks before returning it to sender. They have suggested you give this office a call and see if they can shed any light:

0845 6113 1256 (option 4)
Royal Mail House
Roland Hill Close
Swindon
SN3 5TQ

When I get in tonight I will scan the proof of posting receipt and email it to you so you know we're not trying to pull a fast one.

In the meantime - I've just received another email via ebay from you as follows:

'I still have not received this item if I do not hear from you I will have no choice but to request a return of payment'

You haven't even given me a chance to respond to your message from 9.58am this morning. I'm really sorry this item has been delayed but I'm doing what I can to sort it out. If you want to make this formal you will have to go through the dispute process (search on ebay for dispute or complaint) but bear in mind that if the post office won't consider the item lost until the 22nd May then there's not a lot I can do in the meantime. It's not as if we've taken your money and disappeared off the face of the earth.

I hope we can continue to deal with this problem in a friendly and informal manner but please do let me know if you intend to log this as a formal dispute so I can provide any required info.

Thanks, Chouchoutan.

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Original Message

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From: Irate Buyer
Sent: 12 May 2008 09:58
To: Chouchoutan
Subject: Re: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

Chouchoutan,

Have you been able to track the parcel? or will I have to make a claim?

Irate Buyer

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From: Chouchoutan
Date: 2008/05/09 Fri AM 09:14:50 BST
To: Irate Buyer
Subject: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

Hi there.

My husband sent it last Wednesday morning so should definitely have arrived by now - was sent as a standard parcel so should have been 3-5 days. Will find postage stuff when I get home (at work at the moment) and let you know. Really sorry for the delay.

Thanks, Chouchoutan.

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Original Message

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From: Irate Buyer
Sent: 08 May 2008 19:03
To: Chouchoutan
Subject: Re: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #xxx

No I still have not received the item can you chase it up it is now over due, if you have a tracking number that would help.

Irate Buyer

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Message sent via ebay on 8\5\08

Dear Irate Buyer

Hi there.

Did the item arrive OK? If so can you please leave me some feedback otherwise get in touch and I'll chase the parcel with Royal Mail.

Thanks, chouchoutan

StaffsSW

First off, there are more and more buyers like this these days, so try not to take it personally. eBay has a tarnished reputation, so more buyers are sceptical when making their first purchases.

Secondly, never email a buyer requesting feedback - even if it is a guarded way of checking the item has arrived. What has happened to you is a classic case - the buyer knows that it has no tracking, therefore they WILL win a paypal claim. It sounds like they are trying to pressurise you into an early refund without the paypal claim - maybe they make a habit of this and paypal will be watching them for a history of INR claims.

Thirdly, you have done all you can for now. Wait for the buyer to open the dispute, if they do go ahead with it, then follow the instructions from there.

Finally, if you do end up refunding the buyer, then you are quite entitled to open an unpaid item dispute against them to get your selling fees back. Many people do not agree with doing this, however it is the only guaranteed way to get a refund. Sending a mutual cancellation allows an already irate buyer to reject the request, costing you more that it already has.

chouchoutan

Don't know if it makes any difference but this buyer had no history on ebay. I think he comes across as more of an inexperienced newbie than a serious scammer but I'm just showing my naivety now!

I'll be more wary of buyers with low feedback now which is a shame as we've all got to start somewhere!

Also, we did take out the extra 'royal mail 'insurance' on the item (for goods worth between £50 and £100) so I guess we can claim the loss back from the PO or does the recipient get to claim it?

StaffsSW

A low feedback score means nothing - it only takes a few minutes for an experienced user to open a new account.

My total feedback score across all my accounts is well over 30,000, however most of my buying accounts are less than 25 feedback. I have good reason for this though, I purchase in some competitive areas, so I do not want other buyers tracking who I am, or what my bidding patterns are.

Millionaire

What a Noob buyer.

If I was the buyer I would have rang the Royal mail local office to check they didnt have anything there as sometimes the postie doesn't post the card to tell you theyve tried to deliver.

Also as a seller I do however post items via a trackable method even if it costs slighlty more.

soolin

Asking for feedback is a very bad idea..remember that in future, feedback is optional.

Also suggesting that a buyer somehow needs to wait for you to start a RM claim is also not a good idea, paypal allow a chargeback to be started as early as day 7, you can't even start a claim with RM until working day 15. never let on to a buyer that you are forcing them to wait as that is likely to start them panicking that they are dealing with a seller that isn't going to refund without a fight.

Your emails were polite and it is a shame that some buyers take such umbrage, but I think it is the fact that it could be read as saying you would not refund for a while. If I get an enquiry abou tloss I do try and gently edge the buyer towards waiting a few days, maybe asking them to wait until 'Monday' or 'the weekend' or something but at the same time assuring them that if parcel doesn't turn up then I iwll refund.

You will obviously lose a paypal chargeback if you can't prove delivery, paypal won't care about the emails as the case is clear..no delivery no seller protection. However I would probably have uploaded emails as well just to make myself feel better!

patriciaellen

The only method of postage to use for ebay sales is Royal Mail Secure Post; if you use any other method than this then you are wide-open to scammers who know that Paypal will refund automatically if the seller doesn't have a tracking number. Really sorry seller, but I do think this is a lesson that you'll learn the hard way.

The buyer really is within his rights; if the PO has lost the item it isn't the buyer's problem - it is YOURS. In your shoes I would let the buyer escalate to a claim and then just be as helpful as possible when asked for info. As the previous poster pointed out, if the buyer makes a habit of this then he won't want to escalate and will be hopeful you'll refund without a proper claim.

Most importantly - DO NOT TAKE THIS PERSONALLY.

chouchoutan

Thanks everyone for the replies - I've definitely learnt a lesson here!

Will I be able to claim back from the Royal Mail as I have proof of posting and insurance?

soolin

Yes you can claim back from the Royal Mail. Even after waiting 3 weeks to submit your claim though that can easiyl take another month or two to pay you out.

The only other thing I would be extremely wary about, and I am almost afraid to mention it , is that on rare occasions the RM ask the person receiving th eparcel to confirm that it did not arrive, This is one reason why I keep my buyers on my side and refund quite quickly as I need their co operation in case they are the buyer that is randomly selected to confirm non receipt. If you annoy a buyer by suggesting, in any way, that they must wait for a refund they might be less than helpful if they are contacted by the Royal mail.

Hintza

Posted last Wednesday? Five working days are not up yet I would be polite and just say give it a few more days. But it looks like you have lost all goodwill already.

Your 3rd email got too formal far too quickly, really needed to keep it more sort of chatty whilst allowing a bit of time to pass.

You made the cardinal sin of contacting your buyer, never a good idea...just opens a can of worms.

Good luck.

PS I can normally keep a buyer sweet for 3 weeks if I really work hard at it...lol

soolin

Hintza wrote: »

PS I can normally keep a buyer sweet for 3 weeks if I really work hard at it...lol

:rotfl:

I'm sure you can be very nice Hintza!!

I usually judge it by the tone of the emails I get back, if they sound tense, or if they have left poor feedback before I might cave in at week 2, but like you I would aim to just get into that third week before actually hitting the refund button.

However, I am so polite it almost hurts..I think I apologise for the delay/loss so many times, the buyer must be pleased to be shot of me by the end.