We gotta get out of this place

tony_ack

Hi

I posted some time ago about our situation. We bought a house with a 3% deposit in August last year, so unfortunately at just the wrong time. We think the house may have been overvalued, and as such bought at about 5% below asking price for £96500

During the last 8 months we have been targeted constanatly by gangs of kids from the estate. We're at the point now where we need to move. The final straw was on Sunday night when someone put a couple of bricks through my partner's car's rear window (I have long since sold my car in favour of a 1 1/2 hour commute because it was constantly being damaged).

The trouble is largely targeted at us - no-one else on the estate is suffering nearly as badly. I hate to say that we're probably being targeted because we have (had) two cars, nice stuff, etc., and don't really 'fit in' with the gangs of kids.

Last time I posted, I was basically given two options: Sell or move out and let out - neither of which I really wanted to consider, but now needs must.

Given the lack of equity in the house, selling will be pricey now, and we have to find a £2800 early repayment charge for the mortgage. We will also need a quick sale. With the problems we have been having with gangs of kids, there's also the moral dilema of selling to someone knowing that they may experience problems. Taking all this into account, selling to a 'sell your house fast' company seems like a good idea, despite the lower valuation I'll get. I'll need to get either an unsecured loan to cover the shortfall, or a 'family loan' - probably a big one (£15k-£25k). My credit record isn't bad - a missed payment here or there on credit cards a couple of years ago, but that's all. I'm also happy to take the financial loss and be tied into repayments for the next few years - I've lived on the breadline before, and it is preferable to living how we are now with the gangs of kids. Repayments on such a loan could be up to £500p/m - which is just about affordable if we were renting elsewhere at the same time.

Letting is slightly more risky I think, but with less outlay now, and the potential to lose less. I will need to get the lender's permission first, and get the house set up for renting out (e.g. saftey checks). Because of the gangs, and the fact it would be my first letting, I'd want the house to be managed by an agent. Looking at rents for similar properties in the area, I could expect £450-£500 pcm in rent, minus tax and agent fees. So probably about £325-£400 in my pocket. The monthly mortgage payment is £571, increasing to £633 (current svr) in August 2009. So I'll basically be subsidising the property at £200-£300 per month. I can afford to do this, but it's a lot of money to throw away per month. However, when (if) house prices recover, I may suddenly be in a better situation.

Anyway, I have the following questions:
1. The obvious one - sell or rent out?
2. Is there another way, bearing in mind that staying in the house is not an option?
Letting-
3. Is it difficult to obtain permission from the lender to rent out?
4. Is keeping the house on a wise investment?
Selling-
5. How much below market value will a 'sell your house fast' company typically offer? (%)
6. Are there any special 'negative equity loans' for my situation? I do not want to buy another property at the moment.
7. I've done some redecorating (including removal of woodchip) - the house is much nicer inside now. Will this cushion the drop in price somewhat?
8. Could I come to an agreement with my mortgage lender to pay off the negative equity with one of their loans (Halifax)?
9. Any way to just 'give the house back' to the lender and start again (ever the optimist!)

Many thanks

Ant

Cassa

Sorry to hear about your dreadful situation.

I have been in the same position, it was resolved by involving the local councillors, who then involve the area tasking team, which consists of the police and the local council, and various other parties.

Is there any chance you can do this? A list of the councillors for your area
will be on your council web site. Their help can be invaluable.

This may ease your problems until you can sell, or let out your home.

Good luck

PasturesNew

1] I'd sell. Even if you rented it out you'd have issues with tenants wanting to break their agreement because of the groups of kids. And if the property were ever empty they might break in/escalate their naughtiness. Sell and put it all behind you. Or find out who the ring leader is, follow them home and speak to their parents, who might just tell you to "F Off, mind your own f'ing business. My kid's a f'ing angel. Go on, f off before I thump you"

2] I can't see another way. Unless you specifically rent it to Bouncers, martial arts trainers and bodyguards. Or people with kids themselves.

3] Not difficult. Depends, each one is different. Might cost you a few hundred quid and filling in a form; some might want you to take out a BTL mortgage on a higher rate and will want to ensure the rent is 1.25x the interest of the mortgage they lend you (meaning often they won't lend you enough)

4] No

5] Tricky to say. Each company and house is different. Only way to find out is to ask some. But don't go with one that charges you a fee to value it.

6] No. Any that existed have been withdrawn.

7] No. Probably not.

8] Most probably not. They're all nervous.

9] No way. If you give it back, they'll chuck it into an auction with all the others and take whatever they can get without being especially bothered at how much that is as they can chase you for the money for up to 12 years.

You say you have been targetted because you have 2 cars and nice stuff. It might be more fundamental than that. e.g. it might be your position on the road/estate. Close to a lamp post is often a gathering point. Corners are dodgy. End houses. You have to look at the area to see where/why they would congregate. A nice big BT box to sit on; a tree to hang out around; a fence/corner of grass out of sight of their parents. It might just be because you've got no kids, so yours aren't in their group. It makes you different; different is picked on.

pinkshoes

What have you actually done so far to stop these thugs? Could you not get CCTV, or video them, and stick it out until the end of the fixed mortgage period? ALWAYS call call the police if you see them doing anything. The more you call, the more likely they are to eventually do something.

If you don't like living there, then it's unlikely you'll be able to rent it out easily, so will end up with void periods and a high turnover of tenants.

Have a BBQ out the front every weekend, and invite round as many 20 stone tough blokes as you can?

tony_ack

Thanks for the replies

Cassa - I've not tried the councillors directly but there have been a lot of initiatives in the area recently by the Safer Neighbourhoods Team, which has meant that the gangs of kids aren't out as much anymore. However the menacing lotiering by many kids has been replaced by vandalism by a couple of them. When my partner's window was smashed, we didn't find out until hours later, as everything was quiet outside that evening. How can anyone defend against that? I am willing to try the councillors, but fear that without the police having a 24/7 presence on the estate, we won't be able to prevent attacks against us.

PasturesNew - you have the dialogue with the parents spot on. We know who the ring leader is, and have spoken to his parents before. The problem is that we've only caught him in the act once - kicking down our neighbours' fence. We reported this to the police as we knew the response we'd get from his parents. This is likely the reason behind the most recent troubles, but since we were alreay being targeted before that, we were in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.

Now his friend has taken over the 'head menace' position, and we have been told it was him who smashed the window last weekend. We're going around to see his dad about it, but he has a reputation of flooring anyone who dares to accuse his kid of anything.

As for other factors - the position does play a role. It is an end terrace, pretty much in the middle of where each of them live. We used to get a lot of loitering outside, but this stopped when we kept the blinds and curtains open and the lights on, so they could see into our house (counter intuitive, but they don't like being watched). As mentioned above, now they loiter elsewhere, and we suffer more direct attacks.

I was already leaning towards selling anyway - I looked at the rental figures and something didn't seem to add up. A clean break (well, except for the debt) would be nice too. I'm going to finish off the decorating that we've already started and get some 'sell your house fast' valuers in. I've done the sums, and looked at what we could realistically afford to accept:
£105k - cloudcukooland
£95k - no chance, unless the house was severely undervalued
90k - will snap their hand off
85k - probably around what I expect
80k - a little lower than expected, but will take
75k - can't afford to go below this

Trollfever

I've not tried the councillors directly

This was my first stop when I had similar issues:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/anti-social-behaviour/reporting-asb/?view=Standard

tony_ack

pinkshoes wrote: »

What have you actually done so far to stop these thugs? Could you not get CCTV, or video them, and stick it out until the end of the fixed mortgage period? ALWAYS call call the police if you see them doing anything. The more you call, the more likely they are to eventually do something.

If you don't like living there, then it's unlikely you'll be able to rent it out easily, so will end up with void periods and a high turnover of tenants.

Have a BBQ out the front every weekend, and invite round as many 20 stone tough blokes as you can?

Thanks pinkshoes - I don't like CCTV, but was starting to come around to the idea. That was until the only woman with CCTV on the estate pointing at where the kids usually congregate ended up with PAEDOPHILE scrawled across her car in pink spray paint because of the camera.

We call the police whenever we see something, but they are only interested if a crime is being committed. As thick as the kids are, they know to make sure no-one is watching and to stay in the shadows when they can.

tony_ack

Trollfever wrote: »

This was my first stop when I had similar issues:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/anti-social-behaviour/reporting-asb/?view=Standard

Was also my first stop. I was passed around and eventually put in touch with the Safer Neighbourhoods team. Their response was 'sorry about the situation, not a lot we can do without evidence'. Think I'm going to give them another go though - it's been a while, and I think there is a new team in place now.

I also have another question:
10. are there any property buying companies that people would either recommend we use/avoid?

PasturesNew

My dad was falsely accused by a drunk neighbour of being a !!!!!!, she hated all men and started rumours about all men in the area. But her son targetted my dad. They smashed their front windows in. I got a video camera and waited for them.... I shouted "now", dad flicked the spotlight switch and I video'd them full frontal with stones in their outstretched arms about to throw them. Video footage also got the whole group approaching and getting the stones from a neighbour's driveway (I won't ever have gravel as it's a teen weapon of choice).

Phoned the police, who hadn't been helpful before, they came round, watched the video. They knew who it was. They went to see them. Never had another single incidence since. That was in 1998.

daveyliver

I am so sorry to hear about this apalling behaviour to your family. I would steer clear of visiting the little p####s father cos if you have heard he floors anyone who accuses his son of wrong doing theres only gonna be one outcome.

Try and get the police and council involved as much as possible, phone the police when you see anything suspicious, even if their just hanging around, phone and say you think a car is being broken into, or someone just climbed over a garden etc Anything just to get them there, if you make enough calls then they should consider the problem a priority and deal with it more effectively.

I agree with the cctv, I heard a man round our way was being victimised by a gang of kids, so he filmed them every night for a week. He took the footage round to the police, and the policeman advised him that he wouldnt look at it because he felt the man shouldnt be filming children????

I hope something happens soon and you get peace of mind, Im glad I have never had this situation because I can promise you i would be doing jail time!

jimc_2

How about constantly-on security lights shining on where they congregate? You can get high-efficiency types so the cost of running them is a fraction of what it would be with the old incandescent type.

How do think a 'MOSQUITO' device would go down? Would it only antagonise them more? (If you hid it it might not be so obvious who has it up there.)