Private school fees (merged)

maverickangel

Mado wrote: »

Don't you find it unfair that with tutoring and private school children manage to get into grammar school at the expense of able children who just haven't had that extra push, denying them of the chance you had? (the total number of places is limited...)
I do.

Sorry to OP in advance, as I think I've strayed into esoteric debate rather than constructive thoughts on saving for private education.

I took my 11+ in the 1970s (I am old, VERY old lol). Then we just turned up for school, took the tests and that was the end of it. The school didn't do any prep for them, we had no idea whether they were important or not. Children weren't privately tutored for them. When I did go to Grammar school, about 80% of students had come from the state sector and 20% from the private sector.

I do know things have changed now, and would agree that it's not fair that some children are "crammed" for the 11+. It's not fair on the children who are mediochre academically, who are consigned to an educational lifetime of continous "cramming" to keep up with their more academically able peers.

I would debate whether a child who is unable to get to Grammer school without cramming is being done a disfavour by not getting a place. Far less fair for the poor pushed children given places for which they aren't suited.

I can also appreciate the point that children who would otherwise have gone to Grammar school but don't because they weren't given extra tuition may have lost out, although that is debatable.

With respect to my own children, I would hope to provide them with an education which fits their needs and enables them to develop into rounded individuals. I certainly don't see extreme amounts of cramming and pressure being part of their early school days - one of the reasons I am currently opting for the state sector.

I'm not sure if that throws any light on things, TBH. Sorry.

borntobefree

Just an observation but I haven't seen a poster who went to a "secondary modern" asking for a return to the old ways.;)

Janabiyah-Jane

I just wanted to say my bit.

Different schools suit different kids. The bright ones generally do well where ever they are (if they don't get in with the wrong crowd, and aren't easily led).
My daughter however, is not the brightest spark (seriously thinking of having her assessed professionally as the latest report tells us that she has gone down. It did mention that she was well mannered and friendly which is something). The school refuse to admit that she needs extra help. Her very bright friends are being given extra lessons to help them achieve higher results in their SATS and the ones with learning disabilities are also being helped to improve their results. Unfortunately (and I get the impression this is common in state schools) the ones in the middle (my daughter included) get left to trundle along.
So my husband and I have decided that we are going to send her to private school (non selective I add). Where we feel the smaller class sizes (maximum 18, currently in a class of 33) will help. When we visited the school the children were all incredibly sociable and confident (not horribly so). My daughter lacks confidence and is incredibly self conscious.

With my eldest daughter at a top dance school, which as a school for talented children is means tested. However as we are middle income earners and first time buyers 5 years ago the fees are still high for us. Therefore we are already quite stretched, we both work full full time, but will have to budget very strictly to enable us to do this. Holidays will be a thing of the past, but my childrens future is far more important.

That's all.:D

Mado

maverickangel wrote: »

I do know things have changed now, and would agree that it's not fair that some children are "crammed" for the 11+. It's not fair on the children who are mediochre academically, who are consigned to an educational lifetime of continous "cramming" to keep up with their more academically able peers.

I would debate whether a child who is unable to get to Grammer school without cramming is being done a disfavour by not getting a place. Far less fair for the poor pushed children given places for which they aren't suited.

I agree it's not fair on the children.
But just try for a minute to tell that to the parents.:rolleyes:

I have clever and academic DD, in year 5. She is, as far as I see grammar school material. Her teacher agrees with us. She is not being tutored (we work on the papers together). Because the system exist where we live, I want her to go to the grammar school.
If she was to fail the exam because someone who has been trained professionally to answer the questions managed a point above her, I would be fuming, and probably kicking myself.
Some children will lose out. It is simple offer and demand issue.

lily76

well, this question may appear irrelevant,but i am just being curious, why has it to be a private school ,does that mean that the state ones are totally unhelpful at all? cus with a household income of 40K I probably woundnot be able to afford my children to a private school though we havn't got any little ones now. emm, money hurts.

Lunar_Eclipse

Mado wrote: »

I agree it's not fair on the children.
But just try for a minute to tell that to the parents.:rolleyes:

I have clever and academic DD, in year 5. She is, as far as I see grammar school material. Her teacher agrees with us. She is not being tutored (we work on the papers together). Because the system exist where we live, I want her to go to the grammar school.
If she was to fail the exam because someone who has been trained professionally to answer the questions managed a point above her, I would be fuming, and probably kicking myself.
Some children will lose out. It is simple offer and demand issue.

Whilst I fully agree with everything you say about fairness and what I pick up as personal principles against tutoring (you're not alone), you are fully in control of this situation and can influence its outcome for your daughter. So that in itself is a form of advantage (on the ball parent/s) that your daughter has.

Also, your daughter is being tutored. By you. Going through past papers with her is a form of tutoring and will increase her chances of passing the exam. It's just free tutoring, but that doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Some children may get in to Grammar School via hothousing in a variety of forms (private tutors, cramming, private school etc) and may not have done so otherwise. Some may miss out because they sit the test 'bare'. But this will only be the odd one or two in each cohort. And since you already know what choices you have (to tutor or not), I think that makes the system reasonably fair for you personally. It is not fair for parents who do not have a clue about supporting their children, through circumstance or other factors. Not necessarily financial means. Many teachers would happily give up some time to help pupils prior to something like an 11+, parents can tutor their children for free, or friends will help out for free or in exchange for something else such as babysitting, meals prepared etc. Blaming 'money' in this instance is anger totally misplaced IMO. Broke creative parents would manage to get their children 'tutored' if that is what they believed in. Some parents would have no idea this goes on at all (that is unfair) or that they should help their children in advance of sitting it.

Good luck with it all. I'm sure your daughter will be fine.

Discodee

Household income of 40K????????

Blimey! Ours is 15k and we are in no debt and have several hols a year. We'd be rich with 40K lol!

maverick, when were you born then? I was 11 in the seventies too, tho i didn't take the 11 plus. (They weren't big on it at my primary but made no odds; as someone said, bright kids will do well anywhere if so inclined. (I wasn't but still passed all my O levels lmao) ) I was born in 63; we must be round the same age I reckon.

Jane, have you not looked at other schools? I moved my kids from one primary to a different one a few miles away. My DS is still there. It was 500% better than the first. I moved them more for social reasons as they were both high achievers but the new school is MILES better and children are grouped according to ability and are stretched and helped regardless of how bright they are. They're all encouraged to reach their potential which is all you can ask of your child. You cannot make a below average child a genius, that's how it is, but you CAN get your child to reach their full potential. (Not saying your child is below av btw, I am talking generally)
And all children have strengths. Some may struggle at maths but excel at art. others may excel at sport.

I certainly wouldn't deprive your child of holidays when there are several good schools around. Good luck

Discodee

Mado, I am sure your daughter will get in. It sounds very like our scenario and my DD got 98% after just doing a few papers. She will probably shine when she gets there too, as she will have got in on merit and not because of your bank ballance

Discodee

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh My typing is awful
I do know that is balance of course before the grammar school types correct me :rotfl:

Mado

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

But this will only be the odd one or two in each cohort. And since you already know what choices you have (to tutor or not), I think that makes the system reasonably fair for you personally. It is not fair for parents who do not have a clue about supporting their children, through circumstance or other factors. Not necessarily financial means. Many teachers would happily give up some time to help pupils prior to something like an 11+, parents can tutor their children for free, or friends will help out for free or in exchange for something else such as babysitting, meals prepared etc. Blaming 'money' in this instance is anger totally misplaced IMO. Broke creative parents would manage to get their children 'tutored' if that is what they believed in. Some parents would have no idea this goes on at all (that is unfair) or that they should help their children in advance of sitting it.

Good luck with it all. I'm sure your daughter will be fine.

I agree that she has the advantage of support, and educated parents (even if my French education hadn't prepared me for this system;) )
And I am very aware that it is not just money. What frustrates me more than anything is parent's anticipations/expectations that have nothing to do with any realistic potential for their child...
And hence, I don't think the system works.
But since it is in place, I will play by the rules of engagements....:cool: