PPI Reclaiming discussion Part II

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Do you not have an argument about this? Was the £850 added to your loan?

I would not know dreamer, I assume it was hidden somewhere...:rolleyes: :mad: in the settlement...

FSA rules on commission here

13. Do I have to disclose my commission to customers?


There is no requirement in ICOBS for you to disclose your commission to consumers. However, agency law requires you to disclose commission on request if you are the customer's agent.
ICOBS requires you to disclose commission on the request of a commercial customer, even if you are not acting as their agent (ICOBS 4.4).

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/small_firms/insurance/faq/icobs.shtml

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

14 days for accident etc but my actual policy documents that Firstplus sent in their sar said nothing about cancelling within any time limit at all. They can probably say that we received the documents (althought we never had any at all and I complained about this in 2003 during a phone conversation) prior to signing the agreement but that still was not 30 days prior as the whole loan from start (application) to finish was only about 11 working days. (18th December,1999 applied and signed agreement 6th January, 2000 and no in between agreement that we should have been sent either as there was no physical time as this was the millenium year and lots of bank hols in between).

Same as mine then, the SAR say nothing whatsoever about cancellation on any of it !
And the money was in our account before we finally received our docs/credit agreement, my hubby checked our bank account, as shown on my bank statement too that the money had already gone in the account, surely this is not right and yet I think now how slack I was with not then reading thoroughly these agreements !!
Now i'm thinking how can that be ?

marshallka

Di, the cancelletion rights were bought in January 2008 by the looks of it here but how this worded here I think where life insurance is included it would of always been 30 days...????? Have to read a little further into this one..

19. Are there any changes to the cancellation rules?


We have amended the wording of the new rules in ICOBS 7 so it is closer to the DMD wording. But the requirements (which apply to insurers) are unchanged, except for the following changes for PPI contracts:

• insurers must now give a 30-day cancellation period for all PPI contracts, not just those with a life insurance element; and
• there must be a full refund of premium, unless there has been a claim within the cancellation period and settlement terms are subsequently agreed.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/small_firms/insurance/faq/icobs.shtml

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Di, the cancelletion rights were bought in after 2005 by the looks of it here but how this worded here I think where life insurance is included it would of always been 30 days...????? Have to read a little further into this one..

19. Are there any changes to the cancellation rules?


We have amended the wording of the new rules in ICOBS 7 so it is closer to the DMD wording. But the requirements (which apply to insurers) are unchanged, except for the following changes for PPI contracts:

• insurers must now give a 30-day cancellation period for all PPI contracts, not just those with a life insurance element; and
• there must be a full refund of premium, unless there has been a claim within the cancellation period and settlement terms are subsequently agreed.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/small_firms/insurance/faq/icobs.shtml

Thanks hun, so in that case this would not be regarded as unfair then ?

marshallka

di3004 wrote: »

Thanks hun, so in that case this would not be regarded as unfair then ?

Right in the beginning of my complaint with Bespoke/Firstplus etc I was told by someone very wise:D to concentrate on the loan that paid the PPI and not the PPI itself. The loan was regulated under the CCA. Then they said to me "when you bought the PPI there was no statutory protection". This created an unfair term and pursue under unfair contract terms...

I wonder if this is it.. we lost our statutory right to cancel when we signed the agreement as the agreement was final after 7 days and our legal right (I need to find this out for definate) were between 14 and 30 days if it included life insurance...

How can you have 14 or 30 days cancelllation right on the PPI if the PPI was included in the Credit agreement and the credit agreement only gave you 7 days.... I have always wondered this one... you lose your 14 days and 30 days as soon as your 7 days are over...you then have to rely on the lender being fair...yeah right.
You lose your statutory rights of the cancelling the PPI...(If it is a legal right and was always????)

di3004

I am calling it a night, bit of a headache coming on, so time to try and sleep it off......:rolleyes: .
Will read what I miss here in the morning.;)

Catch you tomorrow then.:D

Nighty night.
xxx

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Right in the beginning of my complaint with Bespoke/Firstplus etc I was told by someone very wise:D to concentrate on the loan that paid the PPI and not the PPI itself. The loan was regulated under the CCA. Then they said to me "when you bought the PPI there was no statutory protection". This created an unfair term.

I wonder if this is it.. we lost our statutory right to cancel when we signed the agreement as the agreement was final after 7 days and our legal right (I need to find this out for definate) were between 14 and 30 days if it included life insurance...

Wow interesting.:D :T
Will look more into this in the morning then, cheers hun.:D :A xx

dreamer33

di3004 wrote: »

Missed this just now, and see that you only knew mainly because of the SAR, like mine then......:rolleyes: .

My hubby just told me I had asked him to ask them on the phone (while he was on the phone to the broker) if they got paid for doing this, he said all they said was they get paid commission and no amounts disclosed, and they quickly moved on to getting on with the loan and ppi......
If I hadn't had got the hubby to ask then they may not had said anything !

Secret Commissions: Fraud, bribe or both?

It has been common practice for some lenders to pay brokers commissions. Sometimes the lender will tell you about the commissions. Sometimes they will not. Sometimes the lender will tell you the amount. Sometimes they will not. Sometimes the commissions will be called commissions. Sometimes the commissions will be called an "administration charge", or a "service fee". Whatever they are called, if you were not made aware of the commission so that you could make an informed and aware decision as to whether to accept the position, the chances are the commission is recoverable.

In the words of Lord Justice Tuckey:

"If there has been no disclosure the agent will have received a secret commission. This is a blatant breach of his fiduciary duty but additionally the payment or receipt of a secret commission is considered to be a form of bribe"

We consider that secret commissions form a fraud. A fraud that has potentially affected millions of borrowers. Systematically.

Of course, the very nature of a secret commission is that it is secret and you would not know about it.

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Secret Commissions: Fraud, bribe or both?

It has been common practice for some lenders to pay brokers commissions. Sometimes the lender will tell you about the commissions. Sometimes they will not. Sometimes the lender will tell you the amount. Sometimes they will not. Sometimes the commissions will be called commissions. Sometimes the commissions will be called an "administration charge", or a "service fee". Whatever they are called, if you were not made aware of the commission so that you could make an informed and aware decision as to whether to accept the position, the chances are the commission is recoverable.

In the words of Lord Justice Tuckey:

"If there has been no disclosure the agent will have received a secret commission. This is a blatant breach of his fiduciary duty but additionally the payment or receipt of a secret commission is considered to be a form of bribe"

We consider that secret commissions form a fraud. A fraud that has potentially affected millions of borrowers. Systematically.

Of course, the very nature of a secret commission is that it is secret and you would not know about it.

Dreamer, I am like you here. Firstplus are not under the jurisdiction of the FOS for when my loan was taken out so my only hope for things like this is the courts and no I do not have an argument about this yet but I soon will have... I tried with FOS about it and nothing - outside their jurisdiction so it will have to be the courts...

Uncle_Cuddles

Wow, what a massive thread. I have not read it all! Just a quicky, can I claim for the insurance I got when I took out my mortgage? Its not much, only about £16 a month but I was told that it was compulsory when I took out a re-mortgage with Northern Rock about five years ago. The reason they told me was because I had recently changed jobs. I wouldn't have taken it out otherwise.