Barclaycard - declined and retained...?

dzug1

NickX wrote: »

No I am not a bully and if you actually knew me you would be aware of that.

I never mentioned using force or breaking the law. Indeed, generally I am law abiding, although I am sure everyone has the occasional breach of the law (never break the speed limits on your way to work ??)

However I am assertive and am prepared to confront if I feel I am not being treated as I would expect.

.

Well maybe - I can only judge you from your posts which at least hint in that direction. They are inevitably an incomplete picture of you.

There is a thin line between being assertive and being over-assertive and hence bullying, and that thin line can be in different places depending on the circumstances. If the shop assistant were to feel fearful that s/he was in danger of assault (and being faced with an angry 6 foot plus male talking loudly is in my eyes a reasonable indication of that) then that line has been overstepped. You might never intended to have used force and in all probability wouldn't have - but the perception of the person you are confronting can well be different. And your 'end' would have been to achieve something that yes you would feel was reasonable but to which the law gave you no entitlement.

never-in-doubt

dzug1 wrote: »

Well maybe - I can only judge you from your posts which at least hint in that direction. They are inevitably an incomplete picture of you.

There is a thin line between being assertive and being over-assertive and hence bullying, and that thin line can be in different places depending on the circumstances. If the shop assistant were to feel fearful that s/he was in danger of assault (and being faced with an angry 6 foot plus male talking loudly is in my eyes a reasonable indication of that) then that line has been overstepped. You might never intended to have used force and in all probability wouldn't have - but the perception of the person you are confronting can well be different. And your 'end' would have been to achieve something that yes you would feel was reasonable but to which the law gave you no entitlement.

The same goes though, to the assistant that is bringing trouble on to themselves for instance, why retain the card when a 6' man is telling you to hand it back? At the end of the day the assistant would be warned first to return it before any threats were made.

The assistant has no legal power to retain my card and this is the point you're missing..... i'll decide who retains my property - not some snotty shop worker with attitude!

Brock_and_Roll

In retaining the card, the shop is acting as the disclosed agent of the card issuer - perfectly normal and allowable under English contract law. The owner of the card can appoint whoever they like to recover their property, subject to the terms of any underlying end user agreement. If for example you had a car on HP and were making the repayments then you would have a right to "quiet enjoyment" therefore the owner nor his agents could hassle you or "retain" the car. However, in a credit card agreement the T&C's mean that they will reserve the right to "repossess" the card without disclosing any reason - so in fact in this case the sales assistant had apparent authority to retain the card.

Of course there is a risk of a scam by dogdy sales assistants using this ruse- however surely this is not going to be a concern at a major hight street store - and if you suffered a loss as a result of this you could sue the butt off the store.

NickX

dzug1 wrote: »

I can only judge you from your posts which at least hint in that direction. They are inevitably an incomplete picture of you.

Would you care to share which posts you are talking about ? This is a genuine request because I may have not come across as I intended.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on refusing to surrender the card to a retailer as being bullying.

Eyesparky

Brock_and_Roll wrote: »

In retaining the card, the shop is acting as the disclosed agent of the card issuer - perfectly normal and allowable under English contract law. The owner of the card can appoint whoever they like to recover their property, subject to the terms of any underlying end user agreement. If for example you had a car on HP and were making the repayments then you would have a right to "quiet enjoyment" therefore the owner nor his agents could hassle you or "retain" the car. However, in a credit card agreement the T&C's mean that they will reserve the right to "repossess" the card without disclosing any reason - so in fact in this case the sales assistant had apparent authority to retain the card.

Of course there is a risk of a scam by dogdy sales assistants using this ruse- however surely this is not going to be a concern at a major hight street store - and if you suffered a loss as a result of this you could sue the butt off the store.

There was a documentary on TV a couple of years ago where they had undercover cameras in a number of restaurants, bars and major high street retailers which had retail staff skimming cards. Naturally they had set the cameras up in stores where there was a suspicion of wrong doing (with the store managements cooperation), but it highlights the issue is mainstream. Banks need to take the financial security of their customers seriously and in this instance their are serious flaws in the processes they are employing.

never-in-doubt

Brock_and_Roll wrote: »

In retaining the card, the shop is acting as the disclosed agent of the card issuer - perfectly normal and allowable under English contract law. The owner of the card can appoint whoever they like to recover their property, subject to the terms of any underlying end user agreement. If for example you had a car on HP and were making the repayments then you would have a right to "quiet enjoyment" therefore the owner nor his agents could hassle you or "retain" the car. However, in a credit card agreement the T&C's mean that they will reserve the right to "repossess" the card without disclosing any reason - so in fact in this case the sales assistant had apparent authority to retain the card.

Of course there is a risk of a scam by dogdy sales assistants using this ruse- however surely this is not going to be a concern at a major hight street store - and if you suffered a loss as a result of this you could sue the butt off the store.

The card remains the responsibility of the cardholder and the property of the card provider in all cases. Therefore, I go into a shop and the card provider requests via the teminal that the assistant retains my card. What if the assistant then uses it? I am 100% liable not the retailer nor the assistant.

Point is, I am within my rights to retain my own card and send it in directly to the issuer as in line with the actual terms of the card itself.

TFD_2

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Point is, I am within my rights to retain my own card and send it in directly to the issuer as in line with the actual terms of the card itself.

I disagree. They ask the shop to retain usually only in a handful of situations - if the card is reported stolen, if the issuer has cancelled it, etc.

If that is the case, the issuer doesn't trust you to return it, so will ask the retailer to do this.

It's perfectly reasonable, lawful, and not up to you as the cardholder to argue with.

Sorry!

bingy_burge

I have only experienced it once with a company fuel card: The company went insolvent and myself and collegues werent paid so will used are fuel cars to the max until they where cut off and mine was retained by a garage.

never-in-doubt

bingy_burge wrote: »

I have only experienced it once with a company fuel card: The company went insolvent and myself and collegues werent paid so will used are fuel cars to the max until they where cut off and mine was retained by a garage.

I suppose that could be different if you used say an Esso card at Esso, technically they would be within their rights to retain it.

Would be a right bummer if you had no money after filling up tho! :eek: :eek:

* Imagine being a carwasher for the garage for the next 3 years as repayment!

never-in-doubt

TFD wrote: »

I disagree. They ask the shop to retain usually only in a handful of situations - if the card is reported stolen, if the issuer has cancelled it, etc.

If that is the case, the issuer doesn't trust you to return it, so will ask the retailer to do this.

It's perfectly reasonable, lawful, and not up to you as the cardholder to argue with.

Sorry!

It makes sense what you're saying regards to the situation in which the bank would request the card is retained. I guess for the majority, i.e. no fraud/cancelled card etc, then the situation would be different in that if I went into a shop right now and bought something (knowing that there is no valid reason for my card issuer to have cancelled my card) and the assistant showed me the PDQ which read "Retain Card" I would remove the card myself and walk out.

I think with the new technology, i.e. a shop worker never needs to touch your card nowadays do they, it'd be very hard for a shop keeper to retain your card being it should be in the slot nearest you - away from them?

So in the reverse, say I know my card is cancelled and i'm trying it on, then if at the POS the assistant asked me for the card, i'd know something wasn;t right and i'd say no thanks, i'll try later and walk out.

So again, no reason for the shop keeper to touch my card....

Thats kinda my explanation on it lol :beer: