Dog on dog aggression

Guinea_2

Hi there everyone
Putting a thread on here just to see if anyone has any advice for me. I have two female dogs which I have had since they were both puppies. The first one is twenty months old and the second we got a year later and she is now nine months old. Ever since we got the second dog the first dog has attacked it. Not all of the time but over attention, food; etc. She has no bite inhibtion towards the younger one
I have had the older one spayed, not the younger one and this is not going to happen. The older one always gets food, toys, attention before the younger one. I have even had a behaviourist in to see them which has helped in some ways but not with the aggression towards the younger one. I have taken her to the vets who said use DAP...this has not helped. I have had blood tests and sight tests done to make sure there is nothing medically wrong and they all came back clear. I can almost always tell when it's going to happen so can prevent it but there is always the odd occasion when I just can't be there. I have literally tried everything and I have resorted to using a mussle (sp) to help. This really does help but I don't want one of my dogs in a mussle for ever as they are young dogs. Also...it is not all of the time. It is mostly in the house although sometimes they place very nicely in and out of the house. She's not an evil dog and is actually one of the most lovely dogs I have ever met although just not to the younger dog!
Any ideas please?!?!?!?:eek: No...I would NEVER think about re-homing one of them!

1sue23

I had the same problem a few years ago and tried everything going ,I am afraid nothing worked ,two !!!!!es that do not get on can cause on going problems that in most cases just get worse .In the end I had no choice but to re home one of the !!!!!es I now have one !!!!! and 2 dogs and have no aggression at all ,the !!!!! is the top dog and the males do not even attempt to change things .

orlao

Hi Guinea

Just a couple of questions....what breed/size are the dogs?
Does the the younger dog back down when there's a bust up? or will she battle back?
How badly do they fight? Is it a lot of noise or are there injuries?
What did the behavorist recommend?

In the short term, it might be better to crate one or both when you aren't there rather than muzzle one of them....

TBH, when two ladies are fighting it's really hard to resolve but I'm sure that it can be helped at least!!!

pboae

You need to keep them apart when you aren't there. As the younger one matures this is going to get worse. As the others have said, aggression between b!tches is serious. The old saying is that dogs fight to breed and b!tches fight to breathe, there is a lot of truth in it.

Having the elder dog spayed and the younger one intact is going to make matters a lot worse. I know you say you won't spay the younger one, but I hope you aren't planning to breed from her. There is every chance the elder dog will kill the pups, and if she doesn't the younger one may well do it herself if she feels threatened enough.

It is possible to get two fighting b!tches to live together, but it's not easy, and you may be looking at long term management instead. Keeping one muzzled indefinitely is not really an answer, and in any case dogs should never be left muzzled unattended.

Can you get the behaviourist back for more advice?

Finally, it's hard to see from your pic, but it looks like you may have c0ckers, and they are notorious for the b!tches being overly dominant.

Kimberley

I agree with Pboae

I had two female foster dogs who always had fights, now if i foster two together it would have to be a b.i.t.c.h and a male together.

Why are you not getting the younger one spayed? This will help a little.

I'm afraid you will have to keep them seperate when they are left alone and you will just have to keep an eye on them when your around.

shoppaholic_returns

I know its of no help to you now, but I was advised NEVER ,never to keep 2 !!!!!es together,as when I was looking for a puppy we could not decide between two !!!!!es and were giong to take them both, but the breeder said we couldnt ,althought she would have loved to sell us a !!!!! and a dog, she felt 2 !!!!!es would be too aggressive with each other.
I really hope you can sort this out, what about visiting the vet for advice on a good non rip off dog behaviourist??

kaya

"The older one always gets food, toys, attention before the younger one."

there lies your problem
you must treat them both equally, your giving the older dog privilages over the younger one and re-inforcing its status as top dog(it was there first after all), you must treat them equally if they are to have equal pack status, i would be getting a refund from the behaviourist if he didnt pick up on that one, show no favouritism at all and you see see pretty quick results

edited to add that my famialy has always kept/bred dogs, we have never had a problem with !!!!!es being agressive towards each other, apart from the miserable one who just hated everybody!

Kimberley

kaya wrote: »

"The older one always gets food, toys, attention before the younger one."

there lies your problem
you must treat them both equally, your giving the older dog privilages over the younger one and re-inforcing its status as top dog(it was there first after all), you must treat them equally if they are to have equal pack status, i would be getting a refund from the behaviourist if he didnt pick up on that one, show no favouritism at all and you see see pretty quick results

I may be wrong here but that is not true, the oldest dog should always get their food first before the youngest. In the wild the oldest and the leader always gets his meal first but i may be wrong, but this is what i have heard.

MrsTinks

If the older dog is the dominant one then yes it should get "first" pickings... trying to do thinsg evenly in an already tense household will only make matters worse as the older dog will see this as challenging it's position - that will make it want to assert it self even more. Once you have a balanced pack then treating everyone evenly shouldn't be a problem, but don't do it whilst there isn't harmony in the pack.
Personally I would seriously never recommend having 2 b!tches together - 9 times out of 10 this will be a nightmare! Especially if you are not experienced at having several dominant animals in the same pack. To me it sounds like the older one sees the younger one as a threat and you don't have the respect from her to make her stop this behaviour because in her eyes you might not be the pack leader?
That means the problem isn't going to go away - and by not spaying the younger one you are actually making HER the top dog whether she wants to be or not, because only the alpha pair in a pack breed. Now this is less important if you have a balanced pack - but when you don't it will enhance the problems you already seem to have.
I have to ask though - why don't you want to spay the younger dog? There are lots of health benefits to this not to mention little side benefits like making your dog very unattractive to certain people who would steal her and breed from her potentially, not to mention the restrictions on her when she's in season, the bleeding that will ruin your carpets (and it will!!!), having to walk the poor thing on a lead to stop entire males running up and having their wicked way with her resulting in puppies that are of no value (not saying they aren't cute! My dog is a mongrel!)...

kaya

in the wild the pack leader would eat first and then leave scraps for the sub-ordinates, this would establish who the pack leader is, your dogs are domesticated and live under your roof, there can only be one pack leader in the house- you-
at the moment its your older dog, thats why it thinks it has to keep the younger dog in its place, soon the younger dog will start trying for the position of pack leader, as is natural, hence the fights-only when you establish yourself as pack leader in both dogs eyes will they stop squabbling amongst themselves and get along
how would you expect your children to behave if you blatently favoured one over the other?

Raksha

kaya wrote: »

in the wild the pack leader would eat first and then leave scraps for the sub-ordinates, this would establish who the pack leader is, your dogs are domesticated and live under your roof, there can only be one pack leader in the house- you-
at the moment its your older dog, thats why it thinks it has to keep the younger dog in its place, soon the younger dog will start trying for the position of pack leader, as is natural, hence the fights-only when you establish yourself as pack leader in both dogs eyes will they stop squabbling amongst themselves and get along
how would you expect your children to behave if you blatently favoured one over the other?

In the wild the one who brought down the kill would eat first, and then more than likely the juveniles who are the future of the pack - assuming the pack has plenty to eat. This was brought home to me very vividly in Animal Park on BBC1 - a singelton wolf cub defending his 'kill' against the Alpha male.......

It's hard to say without seeing the dogs in action, but it does sound as if you have a classic situation of two very similar ranking females, and by endeavouring to force your own view of their rank (if indeed they do have a different rank, they may be equals) that is what is upsetting the system. Dogs prefer to know there is an order that suits them, and it may be that the younger one is very slightly higher ranking than the older one, and by always preferring the older one, you are making things worse. If however, they are both similar, in a naturally existing pack, one would be driven away.

Muzzling is certainly not the answer, but maybe you could split your time 50/50 between them - always having at least 2 closed doors between them so there is no chance of an accident.

Have you been back in touch with your behaviourist and asked how long he would think it would take of being 100% consistent with the ideas he gave you for there to be any change in behaviour?