TV Licence article Discussion

MiserlyMartin

MSE_Becca wrote: »

Hi mrobsessed, thanks for the question.

I have added it to the guide, as it's a common misconception that just because you have the equipment to receive "live TV" you must have a TV licence. You don't - you only need a licence if you actually watch or record "live TV".

I hope this helps clear up any confusion (it's been added to the guide under point 7).

Many thanks,
MSE Becca

Originally Posted by mrobsessed
If I cancel my licence and get a visit from a TV License man and he sees my aerial connected TV, is that grounds for me needing a license even if the TV is not being used to show a live transmission when he calls?

I KNOW that I will never be 'caught' watching live TV as I never do, but do I also need to disconnect the TV from the aerial? This seems odd as I could still watch live TV via iPlayer through the computer which would require a license.

Hello Becca or anyone who knows... No there is still confusion. I understand about the live tv equipment thing, but as Mrobsessed says, if TVL visit and see his TV connected to an aerial, switch it on and tune it to BBC1 is that enough evidence for them to say he watches live over the air TV and prosecute??? I would say it is from the stories I hear - the licencing guys are very keen to fill out the paperwork saying you have evaded the licence. Therefore I would think he does need to unplug the aerial from his TV. Any chance you can put this in a specific question to TVL please??

MiserlyMartin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerblack
To clarify what a TV programme is, and what requires a TV licence.
It's a programme broadcast by a UK licensed TV service, watched in realtime.
If you watch live streams of CNN or a US TV channel, it does not count.

MSE_Becca wrote: »

Hi rogerblack, thanks for your post, however I was unsure on this too, so checked with TV Licensing. This is their response:

[FONT=&quot]You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record live TV in the UK, regardless of the country of origin or the language of the broadcast.

I hope that helps clear up any confusion. I have updated the guide with this point


Many thanks,
MSE Becca[/FONT]

So if we watch a live stream of a US TV channel over the internet we need a licence for that, really?!?! Live foreign TV via satellite I can understand, yes it would need a licence as this is broadcast TV, but an internet stream?? It sounds strange that the TVL can have a say about non-UK TV watched over the internet!.. This is very confusing, are the TVL correct here?

[Deleted User]

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

So if we watch a live stream of a US TV channel over the internet we need a licence for that, really?!?!

Not according to THIS DOCUMENT we don't.

From Page 720:-

Foreign channels that I receive on my computer

The licensing requirement depends on whether the channel that you are watching on your computer is available on terrestrial, satellite or cable in the UK or Channel Islands at the same time as you are viewing it.

If the channel is available on terrestrial, satellite or cable in the UK or Channel Islands at the same time as you are viewing it, then you will need a licence.

If the channel you are watching on your computer is not available on terrestrial, satellite or cable in the UK or Channel Islands at the same time as you are viewing it, then you will not need a licence.

If you are watching content that is not broadcast live, for example on-demand content, then you will not need a licence.

(emphasis is mine)

Also, Page 718 has a table, indicating the type of licence (if any) required for different setups.

The third configuration concerns listening to TV audio, without displaying the images.

Cornucopia

Nilrem wrote: »

But the BBC:WW profit is after their costs.
the biggest cost will be, unsurprisingly - buying the content from the creators (the BBC and others!).

Okay, so how much do the BBC make from sales via BBC WW?

And where does this cost appear in the BBC WW accounts?

And why do they apparently pay their Directors over £1bn per year?

Cornucopia

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

Hello Becca or anyone who knows... No there is still confusion. I understand about the live tv equipment thing, but as Mrobsessed says, if TVL visit and see his TV connected to an aerial, switch it on and tune it to BBC1 is that enough evidence for them to say he watches live over the air TV and prosecute??? I would say it is from the stories I hear - the licencing guys are very keen to fill out the paperwork saying you have evaded the licence. Therefore I would think he does need to unplug the aerial from his TV. Any chance you can put this in a specific question to TVL please??

The devil really is in the detail on this.

What was being discussed before was the presence of an aerial connection. So, ideally you would disconnect it. But BBC/TVL have said that it is permissible to listen to Radio using a Freeview TV, which enables the aerial to remain connected in that instance. If the set permits it, the TV stations can be deleted to prevent them being accessed, but I understand that not all TVs allow this.

That's the advice they have given - confusing or not. Personally I prefer the old advice which was that the AV configuration shouldn't be capable of receiving live broadcasts. That seems more straightforward to me.

MiserlyMartin

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

Not according to THIS DOCUMENT we don't.

From Page 720:-

(emphasis is mine)

Also, Page 718 has a table, indicating the type of licence (if any) required for different setups.

The third configuration concerns listening to TV audio, without displaying the images.

From that document:
Since 1 April 2004, if you are in the UK or Channel Islands and you receive or
record television programmes broadcast by satellite from abroad, you are
legally required to have a TV licence.
Foreign channels that I receive by satellite or cable
The law states that the installation or use of television equipment must be
covered by a television licence.
This means that a licence is needed to receive BBC, ITV, Channel 4, 5, or any
cable or satellite television channel

So ok.... so this would mean if you can recieve the channel live on Sat then you can't watch it over the internet stream of same said channel without a licence!
Now this now comes down to how big your dish is, as normally you can't pick up channels from the USA lets say unless you have a 3m dish or more, but there are other satellites which are borderline reception in the UK unless you have a large dish, for example the danish and swedish channels on 5E etc. Still complicated!

Cornucopia

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

What is their definition of satellite in the UK?

Any satellite service that can be received here using domestic satellite receiving equipment.

MiserlyMartin

Thanks so any foreign channel that can't be recieved on a Sky mini dish pointing at 28 E then or is UK licenced by Ofcom, we will not need a TV licence to stream the feed on the internet.

"If the channel you are watching on your computer is not available on
terrestrial, satellite or cable in the UK or Channel Islands at the same time as
you are viewing it, then you will not need a licence."

Cornucopia

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

Thanks so any foreign channel that can't be recieved on a Sky mini dish pointing at 28 E then or is UK licenced by Ofcom, we will not need a TV licence to stream the feed on the internet.

"If the channel you are watching on your computer is not available on
terrestrial, satellite or cable in the UK or Channel Islands at the same time as
you are viewing it, then you will not need a licence."

No. Why would it just be a Sky dish? I think it means receivable via any dish that someone could conceivably have at home, and that ties in directly with the definition for receiving foreign satellite channels.

As before, the vast majority of prosecutions are by confession. So whilst this may appear to be so complex as to be unresolvable in court, I doubt that it would ever come to that. It's be a fascinating case, though.

MiserlyMartin

Ok. Take this channel, Visjon Norge

There is a live stream on their website. http://www.visjonnorge.com/
This is the footprint of the satellite beam: http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Astra-4A-Nordic-BSS.html

Note that the footprint is just missing the UK - it is too weak to receive here, but if you were to have a say 150cm dish you could get it. Its also available on Thor 1W which you can get with a 70cm dish but its encrypted on that one so you need a viewing card.

TVL visit and you are watching the internet stream. You have no satellite equipment connected to the TV. Licensing fill in paperwork and it goes to court.... yes it would be fascinating. I can't see that winning can you?