TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia

Whilst I applaud MSE's efforts to clarify and publicise (what for such a simple thing is an incredibly complex system), there is an awful lot of misunderstanding and misinformation out there, and on this thread.

In no particular order...

- You need a licence to receive programmes from foreign satellites.

- If you receive the same foreign broadcast over the Internet, the present wording on the TVL website suggests that you don't need a licence for that.

- The vast bulk of the LF fund goes to the BBC. There have been small amounts given e.g. to C4, but these are tiny by comparison with the BBC's take.

- The BBC is legally responsible for the LF, and I have written confirmation from a Government minister that the Govt wishes to distance itself from all things LF-related. Government receives nothing from the LF (though the fund itself does pass through the Government's books).

- TVL is simply a BBC brand-name. It is not a Government agency, and does not have a legal identity distinct from the BBC. Many of the functions of TVL are operated by outsource companies. The BBC remains responsible, though.

- Most people are prosecuted because they have confessed (or allowed themselves to be led into confessing by TVL staff). Most TVL cases do not involve physical evidence of evasion.

- TVL must caution someone before taking their confession. At that point, you are not obliged to say anything and you have the right to have a solicitor present.

- Detector evidence has NEVER been used in a court hearing.

- The prime test of whether you need a licence or not is whether you are watching or recording (on home equipment) a TV service as it is transmitted to the general public. The old "capability" test has gone. A TV service is e.g. the live transmission of BBC1 or ITV1.

- Watching over the Internet only requires a licence if you are watching a live stream ie. the same output as you would see over the air.

- BBC iPlayer makes it quite clear which services within it require a licence and which don't.

- If you do not have a licence, you can still:- watch DVDs, Videogames, Netflix & Lovefilm, YouTube, and the internet players of the broadcasters (iPlayer, ITV Player, 4OD, Demand 5) - as long as you do not watch live streams.

- A licence covers portable equipment used away from your permanent home. This includes a laptop/tablet running on its internal batteries.

As a long-time member of TV Licence Resistance, I consider myself well-informed on this topic, and anything I don't know I can refer to the experts there. Please feel free to ask any questions...

madmuppet5

MSE Becca is dealing with the questions, thanks anyway :cool:

Franko101

Cheryl,

cw18 wrote: »

Yes you pay for the first licence in 6 payments - and when I first purchased this way in the late 80's it was made very clear to me that it was done this way. Alternatively you can pay it all up front and they have all your money for the full 12 months (or 11, depending on what date you start it )

Then you pay 6 months in advance and 6 in arrears for subsequent licences. So they earn interest on some of your money while you could still have it, but then you don't hand over the other half in a lump sum at renewal time so you're earning interest on money that you could have already passed to them. So I've never been able to see a signigicant difference between paying annually and monthly. The surcharge for paying quarterly is (I believe) considerably more than I could earn in interest on such a paltry sum over the year (especailly as I'm having to hand over part of the capital every quarter), but if you can find me an account that would make it worth paying the surcharge I'd love the details so I can put my savings into it please

To be fair the double payments on the monthly, and the grounds for the quarterly surcharge, are still quite clear on the TVL site as well. My concern was more that the MSE page's steer towards monthly might be misleading for someone who's struggling to find the money at all, as I think I was when going on to DD a few years ago (having previously always paid up front). I agree that quarterly doesn't make sense if you've already got all the money! But in that case I'm not sure monthly does either

Cornucopia

madmuppet5 wrote: »

MSE Becca is dealing with the questions, thanks anyway :cool:

Just trying to help.

This issue seems to provoke a kind of collective panic that tends to obscure the facts. Never sure how frank the BBC is about it all, either.

To clarify on the payment schemes:-

- The monthly DD scheme involves initially paying for a 12-month licence over a 6-month period. From then on, the payments revert to 1/12 of the LF, and are made 6 months in advance and then 6 months in arrears. Whilst this proves rather complicated the idea is that this is a tax that falls due in its entirety when it is due, therefore those paying by installment should not have any financial advantage from doing so.

As for the MSE steer on this, I don't see that they have much choice since this and the similar Cash payment scheme are the only options to spread the payment.

thankyousam

cw18 wrote: »

I think it's wrong to say 'you will get', as I've never had. And I cancelled my licence at the end of 2010, so they've had plenty of chance to chase me.... especially given the TV purchases I've made since then! OK, so I completed the on-line form. A couple of minutes that didn't cost me anything but the time, and it's all done and I don't have any headaches from hassle.

To support the above: the last 2 times I've moved home I've waited for the letter to the Occupier from TVL, or the letter as a result of buying a TV, and on both occasions told them we don't use our equipment for live broadcasts, the most recent time (2 years ago) via the online forms. We've never been chased or received letters other than the "thanks for letting us know, but you should tell us if your circumstances change" letter.

That said, the examples I have read about people being threatened is completely abhorrent and I consider myself lucky not to have experienced it. I've been geared up for the battle with TVL, but thankfully it's never happened.

Paul_Varjak

cw18 wrote: »

As a young child I was definitely told my great-Aunt had to have a b&w licence even though she had no TV, and that was because she listened to the radio. I don't know when it changed, but I'm glad it has otherwise I'd still need one

I am pretty sure that was the case when I was a child; I am 62 now. Just a pity that Martin failed to mention that you don't need a licence if you only listen to radio as some of us 'oldies' may still be thinking we need one just for radio!

Cornucopia

thankyousam wrote: »

To support the above: the last 2 times I've moved home I've waited for the letter to the Occupier from TVL, or the letter as a result of buying a TV, and on both occasions told them we don't use our equipment for live broadcasts, the most recent time (2 years ago) via the online forms. We've never been chased or received letters other than the "thanks for letting us know, but you should tell us if your circumstances change" letter.

That said, the examples I have read about people being threatened is completely abhorrent and I consider myself lucky not to have experienced it. I've been geared up for the battle with TVL, but thankfully it's never happened.

The BBC Trust estimated that 10% of people who told TVL they did not need a licence still got the letters intended for "potential evaders".

To be clear:

- "Potential evaders" includes all those innocent people who choose not to communicate with TVL because they are under no obligation to do so.

- The letters are typically sent every month, indefinitely. This has to be one of the grossest wastes of resources by any UK public body.

- BBC Trust figures show 83 million letters per year, and 3.5 million attempted house calls.

madmuppet5

I wonder how many on this thread are officially know as "The Legal Occupier"

Paul_Varjak

madmuppet5 wrote: »

MSE Becca is dealing with the questions, thanks anyway :cool:

If you post on an MSE thread you are inviting responses from any MSE member.

I have to say that cornucopia was most helpful in their reply and clearly has an understanding of the TV licensing system.

rizla01

This tells it all.

Please read.

http://tv-licensing.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/standing-up-to-tv-licensing-harassment.html

madmuppet5 wrote: »

I wonder how many on this thread are officially know as "The Legal Occupier"

:beer::rotfl::rotfl: